God I fucking hate stealerships. If car dealer cartels in the US as a concept die as a result of this era of idiocy we’re in, that’s a pretty great silver lining.
Want wasn’t it regean that made it a law you couldn’t buy directly from the manufacturer because he was buddies with people who owned major dealerships. And it just stuck since then.
He also imposed an import tax on motorcycles because Harley Davidson was deathly afraid that riders would rush out to purchase a Japanese bike that didn’t drip oil everywhere and reliably starts when you press the button.
Things like that and tariffs are absolutely useful tools for trade issues: TARGETED, TEMPORARY tools. There would have been nothing wrong with temporary protection for Harley Davidson if it were temporary, if there was a deadline where they have to start competing again.
Regulations were put in place to prevent manufacturers from opening their own stores right next to the dealers they worked with. Dealers assume some risk when they take on inventory. Apparently it’s not like a bookstore where any unsold copies just go back to the publisher. It’s still a flimsy justification though and enshrined these middlemen who then enshittified everything. Worse, in some cases manufacturers are entirely prevented from selling direct, even if they don’t work with dealerships. It’s too much.
Which is hilarious considering how so many of them are getting absolutely wrecked by the tariffs. Because they can either eat the tariff and hemorrhage money, or pass on the tariff to customers and hemorrhage sales (and thus hemorrhage money).
I wonder when they’re gonna realize that they should try something other than shooting themselves in the dick? Time will tell, I suppose.
In most states, manufacturers are prohibited from selling directly to consumers.
There are a variety of reasons for it, some were consumer-friendly (like preventing the manufactures from monopolizing repair/service), but it basically created a system of middlemen that raised costs.
I worked at a Honda dealership in college and I learned a lot.
For example, when you finance through a dealership, the dealer doesn’t actually put up any money. They find a 3rd party financer then tack on a few percentage points.
Salespersons also earn higher commissions on dealer-provided upsales, such as window-etching, rust-preventative, custom badging, extended warranties, etc, so they try to push those things.
Dealers are also locked into individual manufacturers, usually. That is, a “family” of dealerships, are actually multiple businesses, each with a contract with a different manufacturer.
The person that owned the Honda dealership I worked at, owned others. On one side, they had a Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealer, then Chevy, Chevy truck, and Cadillac on the other side. Even they it was all General Motors, they were run separately. Down the street, they had a dealership that sold both new Toyotas and Subarus.
Deregulate? So corporations can enslave you completely? Huh?
Where did Americans get this idea that regulation is holding you back? Probably the same “think tanks” that convinced so many they were poor because of immigrants instead of… as usual… the wool being pulled over your eyes by the wealth addicts…
Probably because the regulations protect the corporations while screwing the consumers. If a rule heavily benefits the companies then it could be a good idea to remove it. Although I do think that blanket deregulation is too broad and too prone to being twisted against the populace.
I’ll take any silver lining, but I’m not sure if whatever replaced it will be any better given how the Chinese have acted in markets they’ve achieved majority stake in.
Hate middlemen all you want, but that employment level is the driving economic force behind the middle class. Get rid of the middleman, without any serious wage reforms, and you’ll have a nation of 5% filthy rich, and 95% dirt poor.
We’re pretty much already there. Having worked at a “good” dealership, it became pretty obvious that only the owner and their managers were making good money. Everyone else? Not at all.
Other countries have figured it out and nationalized these various industries. The fun part is that there’s still luxury, concierge medical care and insurance too alongside nationalized health care.
Fully agree. I just don’t trust China any much more than the US to respect privacy and consumer choice.
Color me prejudiced if you want, but I’ve dealt with enough Chinese suppliers to have a decent idea of how they operate.
I mean I don’t either, but us unitedstatesians are now subjected to the tender mercies of Palantir, which is kind of fucking awful… so, potato, potato.
Fair. At least the stated mission of the Chinese isn’t to be evil for evil’s sake. Palantir just seems like an accelerationist’s tool and nothing more.
Yep, and the CEO essentially says as much on a regular basis. Not to mention, the origin of the name of the company is the scrying sphere that Sauron and Saruman (the bad guys) in LOTR use, so that’s telling in a comically dark fashion as well.
I don’t drive, so I don’t buy cars. But I’m curious, how would that work to buy directly from the manufacturer as opposed to a dealership? Like I assume they would still have to have the equivalent of a dealership, where inventory is locally stored, can be test driven, can perform servicing. I assume that’s pretty much the same as a dealership right?
For example Tesla does not have dealers. They have to have similar functions but they’re owned and operated by Tesla, not a third party
they have showroom, including visible places like malls
they have service centers, somewhat regional. I have two within half hour drive, but also do a surprising amount of service visits mobile
they have places to pick up your vehicle, typically a service center, or some of the time they are delivered
New car experience you go to a dealer, independent middlemen, where they attempt to steer you toward higher profit choices, and the prices are all negotiated where they’re the only ones who know the cost and they have a practiced skill to extract money. It’s exhausting and time consuming
New car experience with Tesla: you may look at the vehicle in the mall or online. you schedule a test drive from wherever is nearest: mine was at the mall they had a showroom in the shopping area and a small section of the parking garage for test drive. You buy online and pay list price where all the options, prices, and financing are visible before you choose to buy. They schedule a pickup time, which might be from a regional service center. Much simpler and easier, and you never feel exploited or scammed
You’re not spending any time getting exploited by a sales-bro, none of that stupid thing where they “have to speak to their manager” so you can stew or second guess. No games with interest or tradeins, surprise incentives, bargains with the devil
If you go to a us dealership, there’s pretty much always some sort of financing deal or somesuch. But there’s also very often a “dealer markup”. Never, ever pay that.
That said, for some cars, they refuse to budge on that. For instance, when the new Nissan Z came out a few years ago, the dealers tacked on like 10-15k pretty much across the board, and then Nissan corporate was surprised when it didn’t sell too well… because the dealerships got too fucking greedy.
If I needed to buy a new car, I’d vastly prefer to just spec it out online, click “order”, and then have a text come in when it arrives at my local Nissan or BMW or Hyundai maintenance facility (as appropriate for the car). I do not want to talk to a human and have to literally socially engineer them into giving me a fair fucking price. Jesus christ.
The problem is the sticker price typically already has excessive dealer markup built in. A line that says that is pure scam , never pay that. But even if you consider the list price, there’s an entire industry around trying to figure out the dealer actual cost and how to pay only a reasonable markup. Meanwhile you have these scammer who are paid commission based on how much they can con you out of. Their incentive is to be predatory
All dealers gouged all car buyers during Covid shortages. Jeep was particularly agregious and the world would be better without any Stellantis products.
God I fucking hate stealerships. If car dealer cartels in the US as a concept die as a result of this era of idiocy we’re in, that’s a pretty great silver lining.
Want wasn’t it regean that made it a law you couldn’t buy directly from the manufacturer because he was buddies with people who owned major dealerships. And it just stuck since then.
He also imposed an import tax on motorcycles because Harley Davidson was deathly afraid that riders would rush out to purchase a Japanese bike that didn’t drip oil everywhere and reliably starts when you press the button.
Things like that and tariffs are absolutely useful tools for trade issues: TARGETED, TEMPORARY tools. There would have been nothing wrong with temporary protection for Harley Davidson if it were temporary, if there was a deadline where they have to start competing again.
Regulations were put in place to prevent manufacturers from opening their own stores right next to the dealers they worked with. Dealers assume some risk when they take on inventory. Apparently it’s not like a bookstore where any unsold copies just go back to the publisher. It’s still a flimsy justification though and enshrined these middlemen who then enshittified everything. Worse, in some cases manufacturers are entirely prevented from selling direct, even if they don’t work with dealerships. It’s too much.
Bet most of them voted for Trump too.
Which is hilarious considering how so many of them are getting absolutely wrecked by the tariffs. Because they can either eat the tariff and hemorrhage money, or pass on the tariff to customers and hemorrhage sales (and thus hemorrhage money).
I wonder when they’re gonna realize that they should try something other than shooting themselves in the dick? Time will tell, I suppose.
Such a weird, American-only practice, like with American health insurance. The whole country is a scam, jeez.
Um, only having been tourist to the US, how does it work?
Edit: the car dealership. What’s different to e.g. Europe (the referenced American only practice)
That’s the neat part, it doesn’t!
Which one?
The first comment talks about stealership, the next about weird us practice and I have no idea what they are referring to 😁.
In Europe we habe car dealers, franchise, independent or do buy privately but they can all act independently.
Is there a cartel or something in the US for car dealerships?
In most states, manufacturers are prohibited from selling directly to consumers.
There are a variety of reasons for it, some were consumer-friendly (like preventing the manufactures from monopolizing repair/service), but it basically created a system of middlemen that raised costs.
I worked at a Honda dealership in college and I learned a lot.
For example, when you finance through a dealership, the dealer doesn’t actually put up any money. They find a 3rd party financer then tack on a few percentage points.
Salespersons also earn higher commissions on dealer-provided upsales, such as window-etching, rust-preventative, custom badging, extended warranties, etc, so they try to push those things.
Dealers are also locked into individual manufacturers, usually. That is, a “family” of dealerships, are actually multiple businesses, each with a contract with a different manufacturer.
The person that owned the Honda dealership I worked at, owned others. On one side, they had a Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealer, then Chevy, Chevy truck, and Cadillac on the other side. Even they it was all General Motors, they were run separately. Down the street, they had a dealership that sold both new Toyotas and Subarus.
It really is
We have one of the most car dependent societies in the world and also the highest car prices. Burn it down and deregulate.
Deregulate? So corporations can enslave you completely? Huh?
Where did Americans get this idea that regulation is holding you back? Probably the same “think tanks” that convinced so many they were poor because of immigrants instead of… as usual… the wool being pulled over your eyes by the wealth addicts…
Probably because the regulations protect the corporations while screwing the consumers. If a rule heavily benefits the companies then it could be a good idea to remove it. Although I do think that blanket deregulation is too broad and too prone to being twisted against the populace.
Hmmmm
I’ll take any silver lining, but I’m not sure if whatever replaced it will be any better given how the Chinese have acted in markets they’ve achieved majority stake in.
Tbh being able to purchase cars direct from the manufacturer would be dope. New car dealers are literally nothing but middlemen.
Yeah, useless middlemen are kinda a thing in the US economy.
Tax filling software companies left the chat.
deleted by creator
Hate middlemen all you want, but that employment level is the driving economic force behind the middle class. Get rid of the middleman, without any serious wage reforms, and you’ll have a nation of 5% filthy rich, and 95% dirt poor.
We’re pretty much already there. Having worked at a “good” dealership, it became pretty obvious that only the owner and their managers were making good money. Everyone else? Not at all.
I really don’t think it’s that hard.
Other countries have figured it out and nationalized these various industries. The fun part is that there’s still luxury, concierge medical care and insurance too alongside nationalized health care.
Fully agree. I just don’t trust China any much more than the US to respect privacy and consumer choice. Color me prejudiced if you want, but I’ve dealt with enough Chinese suppliers to have a decent idea of how they operate.
I mean I don’t either, but us unitedstatesians are now subjected to the tender mercies of Palantir, which is kind of fucking awful… so, potato, potato.
Fair. At least the stated mission of the Chinese isn’t to be evil for evil’s sake. Palantir just seems like an accelerationist’s tool and nothing more.
Yep, and the CEO essentially says as much on a regular basis. Not to mention, the origin of the name of the company is the scrying sphere that Sauron and Saruman (the bad guys) in LOTR use, so that’s telling in a comically dark fashion as well.
I don’t drive, so I don’t buy cars. But I’m curious, how would that work to buy directly from the manufacturer as opposed to a dealership? Like I assume they would still have to have the equivalent of a dealership, where inventory is locally stored, can be test driven, can perform servicing. I assume that’s pretty much the same as a dealership right?
For example Tesla does not have dealers. They have to have similar functions but they’re owned and operated by Tesla, not a third party
New car experience you go to a dealer, independent middlemen, where they attempt to steer you toward higher profit choices, and the prices are all negotiated where they’re the only ones who know the cost and they have a practiced skill to extract money. It’s exhausting and time consuming
New car experience with Tesla: you may look at the vehicle in the mall or online. you schedule a test drive from wherever is nearest: mine was at the mall they had a showroom in the shopping area and a small section of the parking garage for test drive. You buy online and pay list price where all the options, prices, and financing are visible before you choose to buy. They schedule a pickup time, which might be from a regional service center. Much simpler and easier, and you never feel exploited or scammed
You’re not spending any time getting exploited by a sales-bro, none of that stupid thing where they “have to speak to their manager” so you can stew or second guess. No games with interest or tradeins, surprise incentives, bargains with the devil
Go to website, order car with exact color, accessory you want.
Vs
Company orders 55 blue, 55 red, 56 yellow, 55 black with 55 power seats, 55 power consol, 55 …
If you go to a us dealership, there’s pretty much always some sort of financing deal or somesuch. But there’s also very often a “dealer markup”. Never, ever pay that.
That said, for some cars, they refuse to budge on that. For instance, when the new Nissan Z came out a few years ago, the dealers tacked on like 10-15k pretty much across the board, and then Nissan corporate was surprised when it didn’t sell too well… because the dealerships got too fucking greedy.
If I needed to buy a new car, I’d vastly prefer to just spec it out online, click “order”, and then have a text come in when it arrives at my local Nissan or BMW or Hyundai maintenance facility (as appropriate for the car). I do not want to talk to a human and have to literally socially engineer them into giving me a fair fucking price. Jesus christ.
The problem is the sticker price typically already has excessive dealer markup built in. A line that says that is pure scam , never pay that. But even if you consider the list price, there’s an entire industry around trying to figure out the dealer actual cost and how to pay only a reasonable markup. Meanwhile you have these scammer who are paid commission based on how much they can con you out of. Their incentive is to be predatory
All dealers gouged all car buyers during Covid shortages. Jeep was particularly agregious and the world would be better without any Stellantis products.
Lmfao who wants to buy a
ChryslerStellantis product? They’re just… bad. They’re not even cheaper. They’re just worse, and break more.They look tough / classy though!
Tesla does this. They have showrooms to test drive cars and then you order it online or at the showroom and wait for delivery.