they will save 188,000 € on Microsoft license fees per year

  • cotlovan@lemm.ee
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    5 days ago

    It would be nice to redirect a part of that money to support the development of used software. Thunderbird for example is constantly at risk of being shut down.

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    Fingers crossed that this will be an indisremovedble success. 🤞
    Allegedly a similar project in Munich went really really well, but was shut down when the right wing came into power.
    For some reason the right wing of Munich doesn’t like freedom. 🙄

    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      This and software companies openly supporting Linux. For example, if Adobe and AutoCAD among others would build some tars then you could see it.

      Ironically, Game Engines are ahead of the curve on this. You could build Unreal Engine from the github page on Linux for many years now and we also have Godot and Blender. I think several PCB design and also architecture tools already exist on Linux as well, so there is definitely room for a lot of industries and businesses to shift away from Windows as long as they can find a competent tech guy to maintain everything with minimal downtime.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        Blender got ported to Linux in 1998, to Windows in 1999. The modal interface and key command language is no accident, it literally is a 3d vi.

        Linux is generally strong when it comes to 3d graphics workstations, it inherited IRIX’ market share, plenty of artists around, especially in the film industry, who’d go on a strike if you took away dragging windows with alt+LMB. Graphics, that is, CAD is dominated by Windows as CAD started out as 2d sketch software which ran on cheap DOS machines.

        Houdini is also Unix-native and Blender’s only surviving competitor (considered by features, not industry inertia), Maya started out as cross-platform IRIX+Windows.

  • driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
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    9 days ago

    Microsoft blocking email access to the ICJ director may be the best thing to happen for Linux adoption since the SteamDeck. Now every Microsoft lobbyst can be asked what would happen is the US government order Microsoft to block them out of their infrastructure.

    • Shayeta@feddit.org
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      9 days ago

      Actually being able to troubleshoot things yourself instead of waiting for a reply from Microsoft support is a godsend.

      • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        Assuming the IT staff isn’t comprised of a bunch of junior techs that only know the Microsoft suite and not the actual inner workings of how email and Linux works.

          • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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            9 days ago

            I hope so. I would have loved the opportunity to be in that position, and if I was still working as a sys admin, I’d still live it.

          • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            “competency” in IT is more about your skills with the tools your company is using. My current company only has one super minor server running Linux so even if someone so advanced with Linux they make Richard Stallman look like a M$ shill wouldnt be a competent engineer in my infrastructure.

            I do get what you’re saying though and I wish more things would move to Linux in general. It’s much nicer to manage.

        • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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          9 days ago

          Or way worse, what you said but senior techs.

          Microsoft has been at this long enough that there is an army of old guys whose only - but extremely specialized - skillset is navigating arcane GUIs for group policies and AD administration. But drop them in a bash terminal and they’re like a fish dropped on a tennis court.

      • Barbecue Cowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        9 days ago

        I feel like most of the items aren’t going to be real troubleshooting.

        It’s been a good bit since I worked the support desk, but even with generic microsoft updates, most of the ‘questions’ were basically the worst users finding a way to say ‘It used to be this and I want it to be this way, hold my hand for an hour while telling me its not this way anymore until I get tired and then complain to someone else’.

        • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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          'It used to be this and I want it to be this way, hold my hand for an hour while telling me its not this way anymore

          Yeah, but that already happens every time Microsoft does a major version “upgrade”.

          • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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            8 days ago

            And imagine how much more handholding it’ll require when you fundamentally change everything about their computer lmao

      • youmaynotknow@lemmy.ml
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        9 days ago

        Lol, I was thinking the same thing. “plug it in, OK, done”. No drivers and none of that shit.

        • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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          8 days ago

          Mostly because the FOSS community doesn’t have a single point of leadership that is maniacally focused on becoming a total monopoly.

          And that’s a good thing

    • gamer@lemm.ee
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      9 days ago

      Didn’t the Trump admin suspend enforcement of foreign anti-bribery laws? Microsoft just has to write a check to the right person to kill this.

      • Tuukka R@sopuli.xyz
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        9 days ago

        Breaking anti-bribery laws of a country is illegal, no matter whether they are enforced in some other country or not. Of course Microsoft can break the law and then keep paying large fines until they decide to no longer break the law.

  • TheLastOfHisName@lemmy.world
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    8 days ago

    It would be nice to see the European governments start a genuine effort on funding open source development, and start laying the foundation for a migration to their own Linux distro. Microsoft isn’t trustworthy. Hell, most American big tech is untrustworthy. Moving your government offices to an in house developed OS is going to be paramount for their security in the future.

  • gedaliyah@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    I switched to Thunderbird about a year and a half ago.

    Last week I had to help a coworker with their Outlook and holy shit is it so much worse than when I dropped it. There is so much AI garbage in every little thing and bad design getting in the way of just sending and receiving emails.

    Same thing for the other office products

      • maniclucky@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        Yup. I switched to linux on my home computer and now the more time I spend with it, the more I pity my work computer for the cancer it has to deal with.

      • Noir@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        I have an Outlook account from when I decided to use it specifically to receive and interact with clients as a freelance artist.

        My freelance gig didn’t launch, so I kinda forgot about it. This week I remembered that account and logged on… Only to find the most disgusting interface a user has ever seen! There are (almost) no shortcuts, not a gram of intuitiveness to be found…

        Horrible horrible platform

  • chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world
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    9 days ago

    Germany has done this multiple times before. Microsoft has historically swept in with some sweetheart deal to lure them back.

    Hopefully it sticks this time.

    • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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      9 days ago

      Hard to catch fish if you see the fish as dumb idiots, for some reason the fish don’t seem to respond well to it idk.

      • MangoCats@feddit.it
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        8 days ago

        The German IT fish keep coming back for the bait - never bothering to avoid the hook.

  • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl
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    9 days ago

    LibreOffice is a great alternative for 99% of people, but there is that 1% of people who is gonna be disappointment. This is a great step though.

    • msage@programming.dev
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      9 days ago

      Same goes for any software.

      I don’t understand why people act like Windows is the holy grail of computing.

      It sucks, it barely works for 90% of users, and the rest will use anything else.

      Just as Linux will work for 98% of people, and those last ones are due to handful of evil companies.

      • gamer@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        The problem is education. People know how to use Windows/Microsoft products, and are too lazy to learn anything else. Saying “that other thing sucks” is easier than admitting “Idk how to use that other thing, and I’m too lazy to learn”, especially in a corporate environment where you can’t climb ladders by acknowledging your own shortcomings.

        Get LibreOffice/Nextcloud/etc into schools, and the problem will be solved in a single generation.

        • hangonasecond@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          People ‘know’ how to use Microsoft products. I’m a data guy and might spend less than a day a week in word, PowerPoint, excel. Most of the time I spend in them is checking other people’s work. I’m still called on to help people with such tasks as switching from footnotes to endnotes, moving files in SharePoint, fixing formatting. My general knowledge of navigating the UI and googling fixes is better than what people ‘know’.

    • Lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      People bitch and moan every time MS Office apps are updated, too; I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard coworkers complain. TBF though, I refuse to hit the “Try the new Outlook” toggle on my work laptop - I tried it once and it was worse in every way.

      I’m glad the only MS products I use at this point are work-issued.

      • purplemonkeymad@programming.dev
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        9 days ago

        Hey it’s getting better! They recently worked hard for months to add the very niche and almost never used feature of adding a shared mailbox’s folder to your favourites! I mean, with features like that you should expect the dev time to be long.

        • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          Actually this was a huge update. Shared mailboxes are extensively used at any company I’ve been at so being able to just open a shared mailbox without having to dig through 93744847 folders or opening another mailbox is a great addition.

      • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        In October they are forcing everyone to new outlook too! I can’t wait to have a shittier interface with less functionality!

    • network_switch@lemmy.ml
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      For me the trouble has always been interactions with other people. It’s way better than 10 years ago. Just LibreOffices ribbon interface looks so much better today than 5 years ago. File compatibility is just going to be a continued growing pain until LibreOffice hits a major marketshare

    • 0x0@lemmy.zip
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      8 days ago

      I.wouldn’t be so sure, the world runs on M$ spreadsheets and their shenanigans.

      • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl
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        8 days ago

        Yes I am aware, I see some of the most advanced spreadsheets considering I work as accountant, but a lot of the sheets people make can be replaced with better stuff or are just very basis entries which Libreoffice can do fine.

        Missing the formatted as tables is probably it’s biggest issue

    • Landless2029@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      I just switched to Linux and got a new win11 laptop for my wife.

      Had to install a old HP Laser MFC (going to switch to brother when I run out of toner).

      It just worked on Linux mint. Auto installed. Printing and scanning.
      On win10 worked automatically. Printing and scanning.
      On Win 11 it installed with a generic driver and printed fine but not scanning. Had to get the win10 driver from the site… WTH.

      • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl
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        My Brother printer worked way better on W11 then W10, but I disliked W10 more than I dislike W11 at least at the start

    • JigglySackles@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      The only thing preventing me from full adoption in it is the lack of being able to convert to table like in excel. I’ve moved to it for my word processing. But I can’t shake excel because I use that feature almost every time I use the program.

      After that i just need to find replacements for OneNote and OneDrive and I’ll finally be free.

      • eodur@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        You can do that in LibreOffice. Its just a few more clicks than in Excel. Its such a common feature they should really make it clearer. I think the feature is “Database Ranges”

        • JigglySackles@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          Each time I tried to decipher the answer from argumentative forum posts and vague descriptions I didn’t find anything equivalent. I can take a look again, don’t think that was the name of things I tried before.

      • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        Replace OneDrive with a NAS. You can roll your own with something like OpenMediaVault.

        Replace OneNote with Obsidian. It’s not FOSS, but it’s free and cross platform.

        • JigglySackles@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          If I could afford a NAS I would have done so by now. But I can’t afford the drives. Most other hosted solutions either don’t offer the capacity I am after, or lack other features that I want from a cloud storage.

          I didn’t like using Obsidian and I’m not going to learn markdown so it’s out. I’m looking at notesnook, but it’s still not quite what I am after. But might be as close as I get.

          • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
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            I haven’t heard of notesnook. I’ll need to check that out.

            I don’t love Obsidian, it’s just the best free app I’ve come across so far.

            • JigglySackles@lemmy.world
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              It’s really close to OneNote so far and has an acceptable self hosting option. The import function seems good compared to other apps I’ve tried

              • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
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                8 days ago

                I just checked it out and at first it looked perfect… then I started noticing local features like exports, notebook counts, etc that were paywalled behind a subscription. For an app that is “open source” that really rubs me the wrong way. I may look through the source code later. I have a feeling they’ve tied those features arbitrarily to web services to drive subscriptions, which would be really creepy… though not as creepy as if the code exists locally and is paywalled. sigh

        • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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          Obsidian is not a great replacement for OneNote. I tried switching but there’s a bunch of things like sharing pages (and no, emailing documents doesn’t count), easy syncing between all platforms (Syncthing doesn’t work at all on iOS and was kinda finicky on other things, and git is just not a valid option), it doesn’t do super well when embedding images or PDFs, doesn’t have the same advanced hand writing stuff, and probably some other things that I’m forgetting.

          OneNote is basically the only thing besides email that I can’t find a good self hosted alternative. And I’ve been looking trust me. Obsidian is great if all you need is note taking on a desktop, but that’s about where it ends. Or if you want to pay for the subscription and cloud storage, I would imagine it’d work fine.

  • lazynooblet@lazysoci.al
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    9 days ago

    If the trend continues then maybe the hacker community will start focusing on Linux. Can you imagine “I don’t need a virus scanner, I use Windows, the under dog OS”

    • tempest@lemmy.ca
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      The hacker community it’s very focused on Linux since most servers in the world run it. The fly by night script kiddies and botnet creators definitely prefer end user systems though.

      • Tja@programming.dev
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        9 days ago

        This right here. Linux security is so good that the easiest way to break in is via Phishing someone with a windows laptop.

      • MangoCats@feddit.it
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        8 days ago

        The easiest hacks use social engineering. Much more social to exploit in the end-user arena.

        • youmaynotknow@lemmy.ml
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          9 days ago

          Agreed. However, more users (personal, institutional or business) equals more devs focused on the OS.

          • OldChicoAle@lemmy.world
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            7 days ago

            We need enough, not more. The concept of “more” and “surplus” got us into this capitalist dystopia. I know this isn’t the point you’re making. I’m just making a separate point that I thought of reading yours. :)

            • youmaynotknow@lemmy.ml
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              4 days ago

              And that’s fine. I agree. Becoming consumist hoarders is what got us to where we’re at. Or rather, what allowed companies and institutions to take us here.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          9 days ago

          Same, I’m largely being facetious. But viruses come with success, and success also means more software and hardware compatibility. I think that’s worth a periodic scan every so often and some slightly inconvenient security systems in place.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
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        There already are. I barely missed a linux virus from a hijacked python package what… two years ago?

        Linux desktops are quite non-homogenous though, so their vectors/nature is kinda different.

    • Ironfist79@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      You say that like it’s not already focused on. The majority of Internet infrastructure runs on Linux.

    • HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works
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      9 days ago

      Some localities in Germany have been incorporating Linux into their systems for 20+ years.

      That may explain why the financial benefits seem low.

            • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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              8 days ago

              Maybe you responded to the wrong person? I didn’t talk about price but yeah M365 is paid monthly. Mostly, you can get annual licenses with a bit of a discount.

              But an exchange online license is only $4/month ;)

              • exchange12rocks@lemm.ee
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                8 days ago

                Mate, are you sure you don’t confuse per year and per month numbers? Those 180000 is per YEAR (for 30000 users)

                • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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                  8 days ago

                  Mate, are you sure you didnt confuse my comment with someone else’s? I didn’t put any numbers in my comment at all, I was just being cheeky and pointing out that M365 licenses come with a Windows license as well. Or at least business basic and above.

                  I am not German, and I don’t know what licenses or how many accounts the German government has. That is irrelevant to my comment.

          • exchange12rocks@lemm.ee
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            8 days ago

            50 cents per user per month doesn’t make any sense: I think for MS it might be cheaper to give products for free than to process these payments

            Note that that number (180000) is per year, not per month

            • MangoCats@feddit.it
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              8 days ago

              I’m guessing it’s a really small state with not much IT going on.

              As for cheaper to give for free: ABSOLUTELY. But, with free then they don’t have their sales guys in there talking with them, they don’t have the state “acknowledging the debt” and the legitimacy of their right to charge for their software.

              In the 1990s M$ let the world pirate DOS and Windows with wild abandon, they were just happy that people were using their stuff and not others’. After the world was good and hooked, shortly after we all survived Y2K, they started turning the screws - requiring license keys for full functionality, getting serious about demanding payment.

              Bill Gates net worth was “only” $30B before they got serious about charging for their software, today I see it’s over $200B even after all of Melinda’s philanthropy.

              • exchange12rocks@lemm.ee
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                I’m guessing it’s a really small state with not much IT going on.

                A small organization will have higher software license prices per user than a large one.

                • MangoCats@feddit.it
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                  8 days ago

                  Also true, and at this kind of rate we can assume the state is doing most of its own IT self-support without a lot of M$ hand-holding.

  • RejZoR@lemmy.ml
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    9 days ago

    I can’t see a reason why Linux distro wouldn’t be enough for 99% of office machines. Unless deployment is really that much better and easier with Windows and MS Office. And whatever proprietary apps they use that need running on certain OS.

    • catloaf@lemm.ee
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      9 days ago

      Those proprietary apps are the really big factor. A lot of stuff is run from a browser these days, but some systems are just too expensive to replace.

      • boonhet@lemm.ee
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        Things are slowly starting to get better in a lot of the fields I interface with.

        Payroll and accounting software? Many great browser-based offerings. Unfortunately that also means the backend is running in the developer’s servers, but these applications were generally proprietary to begin with.

        EMR company I’ve done a lot of work with (used to be an engineer there), has essentially halted progress on their Windows-only native client (and it was DEEPLY entrenched in Windows) and is now browser based, retaining 99% of functionality. This one always connected to a proprietary backend anyway.

        Own a VW, Audi, Seat, Škoda, Bentley or Lamborghini (depending on model year for some of those)? The popular 3rd party diagnostic software for those, called VCDS, now has a mobile variant if you buy the wireless dongle instead of the cable - it runs a server in the dongle itself that you connect to via wifi, and it displays the sofware as a website. Of course it’s available for non-mobile browsers too.

        Common theme among all of these is that none need to do heavy data processing on the client - though nowadays that is also solvable using WASM.

      • RejZoR@lemmy.ml
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        9 days ago

        I mean, at my work we mostly have operating apps that just run inside browser anyway. Our mail clients also run in browser. Only some internal apps are something specially that feels like JAVA designed or something that should run on Linux as well. We could easily use some Linux distro and with KDE or Cinnamon/MATE/XFCE it would be roughly similar to Windows 11. Most people have no clue what version we have, they just know it’s Windows. You could just tell them it’s special new version of Windows for companies and they’d just eventually adapt to it not knowing it’s not really Windows at all.

    • exu@feditown.com
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      9 days ago

      The advantage Windows has is Intune for device management.
      The disadvantage is having to use Intune.

      Linux is just much easier to script an install an manage using any of the IaC tools you might already be using for your servers. Yes, you can manage Windows with the same tools but it just isn’t as reliable in my experience.

      • chaosCruiser@futurology.today
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        The best thing about R is that it was made by statisticians. The worst thing about R is that it was made by statisticians.

      • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        This is my biggest thing. How come nobody really has any MDM or MEM for Linux? One that actually offers everything that Intune does.

        Hell i even use AD (Yes Microsoft Active Directory) on my Linux servers because it actually works

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            8 days ago

            I’ve tried all of them but none of them are quite as fully featured as the M365 platform. That’s really where they get you. It offers MDM, MEM, email, account control, file shares, antivirus, patch scanning, group policy, and countless other things all under one platform.

            None of those are really a whole ecosystem.

    • IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      Windows + office + account and identity management all come with Ms 365 business in the first tier past family. For about $15 or $16 a month you can use InTune to set up logins and select enrollment with MFA as well a provision computers and management with InTune including Boyd self enrollment for laptops, Android, and Apple. All your files get rbac, backup, and recovery from day 1. You can, and I would recommend strongly against this, even manage your osx devices from InTune.

      It’s very slick and there is a reason business use it. This thread is somewhat delusional on how easy it is to manage and how terrible office 365 is.

      • Sanctus@lemmy.world
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        9 days ago

        UntilI can log a user on and have all their stuff automatically sync or download on Linux. Microsoft can have office computers. But please, please let Linux take over gaming.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      9 days ago

      It’s not.

      The problem is that one percent that does need Windows.

      Unicorns suck in IT. It’s a small number of systems that take a disproportionate amount of admin overhead.

      So IT leadership has to decide if they support a separate OS for a small percentage of users, or one OS that works for everyone (Windows).

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        9 days ago

        Those boxes will be unicorns no matter what, though, also, they’re not necessarily part of the general IT infrastructure. Someone in catastrophe defence might be running fluid simulations using some god awful expensive windows-only software but chances are they can manage their own box, and if not, the ministry will still have IT staff who can deal with that kind of thing.

        • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          IT absolutely does still have to manage those things though. At my company we have all sorts of obscure boxes controlling things like diagnostic readers and CNC machines. Things that the mechanics/engineers [imo] should be able to manage, its still on us.

          Plus they usually still want those things to access the internet (because they require it) or access to file shares (to get gcode files and whatever) which is firmly an IT task

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            8 days ago

            I mean… my condolences and/or yay you get to be a honorary machinist?

    • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
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      9 days ago

      Unless deployment is really that much better and easier

      In staging, i made a batch script to run the shortcuts on desktop we had to run to check if setup was successful. But i couldn’t just run the command of the shortcut but had to run the shortcut itself, because that made a difference.

      In short: no.

  • BoycottPro@lemm.ee
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    9 days ago

    I sometimes wonder what if everyone who spends money on licensing fees instead takes the same amount of money and puts it into FOSS. Imagine what we could achieve? Likely the money would be used more efficiently because they could donate it to non-profit companies which don’t need to pay tax.

    • MangoCats@feddit.it
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      8 days ago

      Just remember, the license fees mostly don’t go into development, or maintenance, or security, or any of that, they mostly pay for “sales” which includes a strong component of end customer support. When you divert “all that money” into FOSS, FOSS development and maintenance might be lucky to get 20%, the other 80% will be spend training and employing tech support.

      • BoycottPro@lemm.ee
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        8 days ago

        There are companies which offer training and support to FOSS. Companies could also pay those companies.

        • MangoCats@feddit.it
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          8 days ago

          Yes, RedHat has been doing this for decades.

          Thing is: RedHat probably can’t price match M$ in a bidding war, probably not even close.

    • raldone01@lemmy.world
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      8 days ago

      And there could be insight into whether the money is actually used for developing the relevant application.