So yeah you can fire a bullet so many different ways, a rusty nail and hammer will do the trick. Isn’t the real problem the frickin bullet?
I swear in Sweden or something, you can take a gun home but ammo is only sold and consumed at the range and not for taking home.
Sure, you can make this a hollistic approach regulating guns and ammo, but the ammo seems to be the bigger issue here. You can make guns easy peasy, but ammo is much harder to manufacture and easier to regulate.
This is literally a Chris Rock joke from the bigger and blacker tour.
This is not how it works in Sweden, if you have a license for a gun you are allowed to buy the ammunition for the specific caliber and have at home.
That’s completely backwards. The people who use the most ammo are generally the responsible gun owners who practice regularly. Meanwhile, you only need a handful of bullets to kill a lot of people, and one is enough to cause an accident. It punishes the gun owners you least want to punish while doing absolutely nothing to address the actual problems.
It’s not the gun that kills you.
It’s not the projectile that kills you, it’s the impact.
No, the real problem is neither the gun nor the bullet.
Either one, by themselves or together, are harmless until someone with poor training, education, and/or mental health gets involved.
Just to have fun by being a bit pedantic, the a bullet is a possible source of toxic lead, and if you are using the colloquialist ‘bullet’ to mean a charged cartidge containing a bullet, the gunpowder charge makes it a tiny bomb, which can be dangerous as well, even without a gun, especially when exposed to idiots with hammers or fire.
Playing along…
If a lead bullet in a charged and primed casing sits undisturbed in a crowded room, it will neither poison people nor discharge itself
‘Undisturbed’ is doing a bit of lifting there. The same could be said of a person, generally speaking. Leave most people in a room, they won’t hurt anyone either. It’s just a matter of what circumstances make each dangerous. If you put bullets in a room and set the room on fire, they act as little bombs. If you do that with a person, it makes them less dangerous, because they’re dead. If you put a person in solitary confinement for years on end, they’ll come out mentally disturbed, and possibly violent. Do the same with a bullet, and it comes out presenting the same hazards as when it went in.
Sure, and you can walk down the road and get struck by lightning with the same odds of a bullet randomly firing on its own and injuring or killing you.
On the flip side, the reality (to the significant digit) is that a person with a gun but no bullets can hurt you. A person with bullets but no gun can also hurt you. In fact, a person with neither a bullet nor a gun can hurt you too! It happens all the time.
But you know what doesn’t happen all the time?
A loaded gun discharging itself without a person attached.
The common theme is not the guns, it’s the people. Let’s fix that part.
American detected
There are many countries with many guns and substantially less gun violence than America. The common thread is not the weapon.
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”
Duuur we need moar guns! Our society is the free-est! My little cousin shot his sister dead when he was five!
Narrator: There are more guns than people in the US.
I don’t think he said we need more. He said don’t give up what you have. I don’t like the number of people with guns… but I do have to admit, if noone but the gov had guns. I think we would be in trouble. Nature requires opposing forces to establish equilibrium. Maybe there is another opposing force, but I can’t think of it. Admittedly, people having guns isn’t really stopping ICE from it’s rampage. But I can imagine it would be a lot worse if they had no need to fear armed resistance at all.
We live in a fascist hell hole surrounded by mentally unstable people with guns. Guns are the fucking problem, they have not solved any of our issues. They support the abusive government, not keep it in check. I am so sick of violence and the reality that every pearl clutching gun nut is only one step away from killing someone.
As they say… violence is never the answer… looks at history… uh oh… oh shit… well maybe it is.
Sounds like what you are saying is that then issue isn’t people with guns, it’s the wrong people with guns. And I very much agree. But if you take them from “the people” and leave them in the hands of groups like ICE. You have just increased the percent of people who have guns that are the wrong people.
If I could snap my fingers and make them all go away, I would. But that just ain’t possible. I support requiring licenses to have guns, and training being required for those licenses. I also support safe storage laws. But bans and restrictions that don’t actually stop anyone from having the gun they claim to control access to are pointless theater that needs to be replaced with useful legislation.
Sounds like you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. If you think violence and murder makes us better then maybe… just maybe… You should take your own advice.
If you ignore the 2nd amendment people are fighting for the government and guns are the oppressive force then you clearly are a gun nutter, no reason to talk with you anymore.
Please just stop with the nonsense about restricting rights and bans. They work, they always have. We can ban transgender but we can’t ban a gun highlights the stupidity we face.
Ok, I get it. Your mind is made up, don’t confuse you with facts. You aren’t even reading what I am typing.
How many people have you lost to gun violence? I have lost several. How many woman do you know who were raped by gunpoint? I know several. How many people that have guns don’t properly store them? Everyone I have ever met save a couple responsible ones. For every responsibile owner there are a hundred that keep their guns loaded under their pillow.
I have read what you are saying thousands of times. It gets old.
And?
Narrator: It didn’t solve the problem, it became the problem.
Pretty easy to make bullets tbh. And honestly I’m pro-gun. Arm the homeless. Arm trans people. Arm migrants.
Everyone needs to arm now. I did 2 years ago as a gun hating leftist, if I can, you can too.
Unironically, Chris Rock said exactly this in his 1999 comedy special “Bigger and Blacker”.
Exactly the thing I was reminded of
You can pack your own ammo pretty easily
You make your own powder? And primer?
No, but I feel like it’s easier to get those than a gun
People are working on it.
the key is to put a bright beautiful future ahead of a person, that could be lost if they commit a crime. simple as that.
deleted by creator
good thing your in charge of very few things
Isn’t the real problem the frickin bullet?
Terminology is going to matter here. Modern ammunition that you’re probably thinking of is sold as a self contained cartridge with a bullet (the projectile part only) at one end, some powder inside a case (brass or steel or aluminum most of the time), and a primer at the other end. You poke the primer in a very specific way which lights the powder which builds up pressure which causes the bullet to leave the case and down a barrel. The terminology matters because in the past there have been attempts to regulate the bullets by giving them each an individual serial number, or by using “microstamping” on the firing pin of the firearm to mark the case. Those proposed technologies won’t work because just standard usage of the firearm would cause any marks or microstamping to become useless very quickly, and very often the first level of argument against such a law is that the person who wrote it didn’t know enough about the technology to be trying to legislate it.
So yeah you can fire a bullet so many different ways, a rusty nail and hammer will do the trick.
Please don’t try this. Firing a cartridge this way without the structure of the firearm around it will cause it to go off in a completely uncontrolled fashion. It’s a recipe for risking losing fingers or an eye, or worse.
ammo is much harder to manufacture and easier to regulate.
The person who assassinated the former PM of Japan assembled all of the gear he had from hardware store level parts, even making his own blackpowder. That’s in Japan where gun ownership isn’t common. Since he accomplished it there it’s unlikely to be able to prevented in the US.
The kinds of laws/regulations you’re proposing are currently being used in California with regards to 3D printers. They were unworkable crap that invited government insight into everyone’s home if that person happens to own a 3D printer, and they’ll create a lot of privacy issues without solving any gun problems (the laws mandated 3D printers reject printing anything that might be a “gun part”).
You’re really proposing mandating a firearms technology level at no better than sometime in the late 1800s which won’t work to solve any societal problems we’re having now, but will hamper people banking on having them around for self defense.
Maybe consider the problem from another perspective when considering firearms regulations? Also consider that the internet just estimated that there are at least several hundred billion rounds of ammunition in the US. You won’t design a process that effectively regulates them all without moving everyone into open air prisons devoid of their possessions, and you’d not be able to pull off something like that without a bunch of said ammo. You didn’t get rid of it; you just took it out of one group’s hands.
That’s pretty epic. Didn’t know the Japanese guy built everything from scratch
It’s not intended as an epic story, rather a story about how a lot of people seem to think there’s a huge moat to creating a firearm, but there really isn’t.
I mean I didn’t agree with the whole assassination deal, but the method is interesting
There seems to be some idea that firearm manufacturing is some version of witchcraft when the reality is that it’s closer to the professor with his coconuts on Gilligan’s Island. The arguments tend to go something like: “That’s impossible” when actually it really isn’t. “That’s illegal” when not only is it not, but it’s specifically protected. “You shouldn’t do that” when some people just like to tinker. “That should be banned” without understanding that the regulatory framework to truly ban it would require tracking everything and every one at all times.
That last one is where you get into a lot of very hairy issues. Apps to track women’s periods have been datamined, and some states propose using the data to look for possible pregnancies and termination of pregnancies. You can track every purchase of barstock, milling machines, routers, tampons, router bits, buckets, bags of salt, car batteries, and every web page access, and you’ll still not stop it, but the amount of privacy you lost in trade for the attempt is staggering.
The best comment in this thread, by far, is this one as a proposed solution to the problem, but of course nobody wants to try that. Instead we want to throw regulatory spaghetti against a wall and demand that people accept less durable materials to work with or demand that people be less innovative. History suggests those approaches won’t work.
There’s a pretty massive difference between “I managed to build a simile of a single-shot rifle from scrap and kill a person with it” and “This legal assault rifle allowed me to perform mass murder in a public space”.
You talk about arms for self defense, but the rest of us don’t go around worrying about not having a 9mm or rifle in our car or next to the front door. You guys have built a problem with arms over there, and until something radical is done you’ll keep having an arms problem.
Gun nuts, totally freaked out when Obama won. They were convinced he would takr thier ammo…
From my perspective both should be regulated.
I’ll do you one better.
We should regulate barrels.
A gun rifled barrel is the only part of a gun that can’t be reliably and descretely be made at home. You can make your own ammo essentially from house supplies and spent brass casings. With the upsurge of small desk lathes, CNCs and 3D printers you can also fabricate most parts of the receiver at home (which they now regulated too).
But a barrel however, you need very specialised heavily machinery to make a rifled barrel in a way that makes the gun not blow up in your face or be able to hit the broad side of a barn.
The barrel would also tell you a lot about the gun owners habits. If somebody goes through several barrels in a few years, they are probably using the firearm a lot and are therefore well trained and capable.In my opinion serial numbers should also be stamped or laser engraved on the barrel not the receiver. People would also think twice before filing off the serial number and ruining the structural integrity of the barrel.
Technically you can slap together a home made rifle, as long as it uses a manufactured barrel it will be somewhere in the realm of precision of a fully manufactured firearm, reliability however may differ.That’s why countries like Germany legally define a “firearm” as “A device that expels a projectile through a barrel”. The receiver or more precisely the mechanism of operation is herby completely irrelevant (there are exceptions for muscle powered devices).
This would also call for a revision on the idiotic suppressor regulation, which is in essence limiting the use of a device to further protect your hearing. Instead you either register a barrel with a fixed muzzle device or a barrel with a threaded end and you can put whatever you want on it. The government is happy, because it can assume you are a dead silent killer with a scary silencer, and you are happy because you don’t have to wait 6 months for a glorified propane tank on the end of your gun.
Some people collect guns like Pokémon cards. Imagine if you can get 1 to 3 barrels and then 40 different receivers without having to register any of them. A lot of AR platfrom barrels are interchangeable, so you can have as many colors, setups from as many different manufacturers as you want. In the end even if somebody decided to go lulu and shoot up a place, they can’t use more than 3 of them at once.
Collectors would also profit since now they can have as many historic firearms as they like as long as they all have a dummy barrel. No need to destroy the beautiful mechanics of the gun to deactivate it. And if they decide to actually fire it for demonstration, they can register a separate real barrel.
Edit: English isn’t my first language so I mixed up threading and rifeling. Fixed that.
The FGC 9, for example, has a barrel that one can electro-chemically machine with 3d printed jigs, wire, salt water, hydraulic pipe, and a 12v battery
You mean EDM wire cutting the rifling? You could technically angle the wire inside the barrel to achieve the proper pitch. But your pitch will be limited by the length of the barrel. Also is you angle a straight wire inside a tube and cut slots into it, the bottom surface of your slot will be parabolic. Not ideal for rifling since the pressure inside the barrel will steadily grow as the projectiles moves towards the middle of the barrel and then decrease past that. You got a video of somebody attempting that. I’d love to see that. Also EDM wire cutting at home is doable, but far from easy.
electro-chemically machine
3D Printing Enthusiasts and Second Amendment Supporters should’ve been a natural fit, but instead we got CA banning plastic rope and requiring 3D printers to reject building certain designs. I don’t unerstand why they didn’t gel.
You do not need specialized machinery. Any metal working lathe will work.
Sorry, English isn’t my first language. I just realised that what I ment by “thread” was actually called “rifling”. And, as far as I know, they either use a button broaching or a cold-hammer-forge (CHF) machines. Both not exactly cheap, easy to obtain or easy to operate. An older, much simpler method was to take an octagonal stock pipe and twist it to get the rifling. But this method is way less effective and less reliable. It was also mostly used for revolvers since it’s very complicated to machine the chamber directly into the octagonal pipe.
https://youtu.be/gtLYnqZQHCY It’s a lot easier than you think it is. Guns are a simple mechanical technology. Any Machinist, mechanic, welder, most carpenters, would have the tools on hand. The barrel blank and springs for mags/recoil management are the hardest parts to manufacture. Which is why most home made firearms are bolt action or slam fire while the more refined ones use blowback operation.
So yeah you can fire a bullet so many different ways, a rusty nail and hammer will do the trick.
Well, there’s also the not-small matter of aiming, or firing again if the first shot didn’t put a satisfactory hole where you wanted. Or just getting the bullet going fast enough to do damage, without a barrel to channel and contain the blast.
It’s not like the whole history of firearms after the cartridge was invented was a waste of time.
You can make guns easy peasy
Ehhh… You can make guns. Metalworking in general is beyond most people, though. And, if you want to rifle a barrel, it’s not clear if standard machine shop equipment will be enough (that’s a pretty small, tight space for a lathe tool). Easy peasy is a bit of a stretch.
but ammo is much harder to manufacture and easier to regulate
People can and do reload their own ammo. I don’t know if anybody DIYs their own smokeless powder, and that would probably be highly illegal, but I’ve heard of people making their own black powder.
