Just so you know where the downvotes and hate are coming from; and for anyone else who doesn’t understand either: “consenting while drunk” is not consent. There’s no ‘regret it later’, since there wasn’t consent - it’s more like ‘feel regret after becoming aware of it’, but even regret is the wrong word. disgusted, violated, furious.
I don’t have immediate access to the evidence, but my understanding is that these men and/or their accomplices intentionally got this woman too drunk to resist. She was unable to competently say yes, but she was also unable to competently say no.
If you think of this and other rape cases stemming from ‘they were drunk and regretted it later’ situations as the fault of the drunk person, please go educate yourself about consent and why being intoxicated precludes it.
I don’t know for sure what the facts here were. If she was unable to say yes/no than that is obviously rape. My understanding was that she was able to and did say no to some things (which the guys then did not do) and agreed to others. According to her own statement to the police, which seemed trustworthy to me. If that is what happened, I don’t see how it was rape. If something else happened, than it could be rape.
I am not one of the people who say you can’t possibly give consent while under the influence BUT everyone has the obligation to NOT DO anything to a person that they might not like.
If you fuck a drunk person and than that person says you raped them you did not make sure they were able to really consent.
For this specific case you don’t seem to have the empathy to understand, a person who is so drunk that they were not able to consent in the first place than them saying yes or no to specific acts has like no meaning at all.
If you have ever been blackout drunk you should be able to imagine that saying no or yes really loses all meaning in that situation.
I genuinely need people to explain to me how if a bunch of drunk and high PEOPLE fuck EACH OTHER, it’s only the woman that’s raped, and only the men that are responsible for any drunk actions.
Sex is something, in general, that you do together. Why the hell do you expect a bunch of smart judgement calls from men, but not from the woman? Unless, of course, you subscribe to the patriarchal norms that no woman could ever like “just sex”, and that sex is always something men “inflict” on women.
Your logic fails miserably on the fact the the guys were drunk too. If your logic applies, she also raped them. But of course, they are male, so I guess that is not a problem in your head.
PS: Also, we as society don’t accept alcohol as an excuse in any other context. You were drunk and someone convinced you to drive? Prison for you. You were drunk and interpreted something as consent that wasn’t? Straight to prison. But you gave consent while drunk? That is everyone elses problem. The poor you can’t be responsible for your choices cause you were drunk. Everyone else needs to go to prison, for not doing alcohol and drug tests before accepting a clear “yes” as consent. Ridiculous.
No, you’re ignoring the “and then that person says you raped them part.” There’s no indication from before, during, or after they raped her that she coerced the men into something they didn’t want.
So if the exact same thing happened and Jane Doe didn’t call it rape after, that fine? Same act, same level of ability to consent.
In reverse, you therefore also believe all the men can now sue HER for rape? Because they decided afterwards?
So you admit it’s just the regret after that makes it a rape in your mind? Besides, if it had any legal meaning, I am sure they would be saying that to get out of trouble. But it doesn’t, because that would be stupid. Someone regretting they agreed after can’t be criminal, because you have no way of knowing the future. How the fuck would you ever be able to act on consent, if that person can just change their mind later and make it a crime.
I don’t have immediate access to the evidence, but my understanding is that these men and/or their accomplices intentionally got this woman too drunk to resist. She was unable to competently say yes, but she was also unable to competently say no.
Both are true. They got her drunk before the first two guys, then after the text inviting the rest of the frat to rape her was sent out, another guy forced her to take ketamine off of his dick.
![Realization [PizzaCake]](https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/58eacea0-b255-4a2d-b579-35265a7cffee.png){kind=link}
Just so you know where the downvotes and hate are coming from; and for anyone else who doesn’t understand either: “consenting while drunk” is not consent. There’s no ‘regret it later’, since there wasn’t consent - it’s more like ‘feel regret after becoming aware of it’, but even regret is the wrong word. disgusted, violated, furious.
I don’t have immediate access to the evidence, but my understanding is that these men and/or their accomplices intentionally got this woman too drunk to resist. She was unable to competently say yes, but she was also unable to competently say no.
If you think of this and other rape cases stemming from ‘they were drunk and regretted it later’ situations as the fault of the drunk person, please go educate yourself about consent and why being intoxicated precludes it.
That’s not a good article on alcohol and consent. This is not true. Here’s a better write up on the subject.
https://bwell.brown.edu/resource/substances-and-consent
I don’t know for sure what the facts here were. If she was unable to say yes/no than that is obviously rape. My understanding was that she was able to and did say no to some things (which the guys then did not do) and agreed to others. According to her own statement to the police, which seemed trustworthy to me. If that is what happened, I don’t see how it was rape. If something else happened, than it could be rape.
No!
I am not one of the people who say you can’t possibly give consent while under the influence BUT everyone has the obligation to NOT DO anything to a person that they might not like.
If you fuck a drunk person and than that person says you raped them you did not make sure they were able to really consent.
For this specific case you don’t seem to have the empathy to understand, a person who is so drunk that they were not able to consent in the first place than them saying yes or no to specific acts has like no meaning at all.
If you have ever been blackout drunk you should be able to imagine that saying no or yes really loses all meaning in that situation.
I genuinely need people to explain to me how if a bunch of drunk and high PEOPLE fuck EACH OTHER, it’s only the woman that’s raped, and only the men that are responsible for any drunk actions.
Sex is something, in general, that you do together. Why the hell do you expect a bunch of smart judgement calls from men, but not from the woman? Unless, of course, you subscribe to the patriarchal norms that no woman could ever like “just sex”, and that sex is always something men “inflict” on women.
Your logic fails miserably on the fact the the guys were drunk too. If your logic applies, she also raped them. But of course, they are male, so I guess that is not a problem in your head.
PS: Also, we as society don’t accept alcohol as an excuse in any other context. You were drunk and someone convinced you to drive? Prison for you. You were drunk and interpreted something as consent that wasn’t? Straight to prison. But you gave consent while drunk? That is everyone elses problem. The poor you can’t be responsible for your choices cause you were drunk. Everyone else needs to go to prison, for not doing alcohol and drug tests before accepting a clear “yes” as consent. Ridiculous.
No, you’re ignoring the “and then that person says you raped them part.” There’s no indication from before, during, or after they raped her that she coerced the men into something they didn’t want.
So if the exact same thing happened and Jane Doe didn’t call it rape after, that fine? Same act, same level of ability to consent. In reverse, you therefore also believe all the men can now sue HER for rape? Because they decided afterwards?
So you admit it’s just the regret after that makes it a rape in your mind? Besides, if it had any legal meaning, I am sure they would be saying that to get out of trouble. But it doesn’t, because that would be stupid. Someone regretting they agreed after can’t be criminal, because you have no way of knowing the future. How the fuck would you ever be able to act on consent, if that person can just change their mind later and make it a crime.
consent is something that cannot be revoked days after it happened, either it was consensual when it was occurring or it wasn’t
Close, they were feeding her ketamine.
Removed by mod
Both are true. They got her drunk before the first two guys, then after the text inviting the rest of the frat to rape her was sent out, another guy forced her to take ketamine off of his dick.