This post is an update of the second part of my Moto server series: https://lemmy.zip/post/72142441

Rumor has it that keeping an 8-year-old phone permanently plugged in with its equally ancient Li-ion battery might not be the greatest idea ever conceived.

Some even claimed that a phone needs a battery to work.

Very negative people.

Anyway, I removed it.

Pettyl did not care.

nginx: UP PHP-FPM: UP MariaDB: UP WordPress: UP cloudflared: UP sshd: UP

The battery is currently sitting next to the phone, contributing absolutely nothing to the project.

Pettyl is now running entirely from USB power, at around 37°C, while continuing to serve the website like this is completely normal.

There is, however, one tiny detail the haters may enjoy:

It can’t boot without the battery.

So the official Pettyl disaster recovery procedure is now:

  1. Insert battery
  2. Boot Pettyl
  3. Connect USB power
  4. Remove battery
  5. Pretend this is enterprise infrastructure

The battery is no longer a battery.

It is the starter motor.

I see no problems with this architecture.

Anyway, Part 3 is going great.

  • SirIglooi@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    1·
    2 days ago

    This is so cool you’ve actually inspired me to try out the same thing. Ive just finished setting up port forwarding and got the nginx page, but this has been fun as my first time hosting a website

    • tradicije@lemmy.zipOPEnglish
      2·
      6 days ago

      It sounds like a good idea until you remember that USB provides 5V and the battery contacts are designed for a Li-ion battery and its management circuitry.

      Wiring USB directly to the battery contacts would basically be like noticing your car runs on petrol and pouring it directly into the engine instead of the fuel tank. The general concept of “engine needs fuel” is technically correct. The implementation leaves something to be desired.

      The USB port and the phone’s power-management circuitry exist for a reason, and bypassing them could damage the phone or make it behave in exciting new ways.

      A properly regulated dummy battery, however, might actually work. Unfortunately, that means I now have another terrible idea to investigate.

  • SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zoneEnglish
    2·
    7 days ago

    Yeah yeah, the project is cool… but can we talk about those absolutely banging tunes?

    Is the moto serving them? Please say yes.

    • tradicije@lemmy.zipOPEnglish
      2·
      6 days ago

      Lol, indeed. The music is stored on the Motorola, and it’s being served by the Motorola.
      And thanks for the compliment about my music! The mix is shit, but on the other hand, it was made by my own two hands — no AI involved.

      • SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zoneEnglish
        2·
        6 days ago

        Well…if you’re looking for an idea for the second moto phone… can I suggest “Google in a box”

        How many “Google-like” services could your phone server serve at the same time?

        • Google Photos <-> PiGallery2
        • Google Keep <-> Memos
        • Google Drive <-> Syncthing
        • Google Calendar <-> Radicale
        • Google Contacts <-> Radicale
        • Google Tasks <-> Radicale
        • YouTube Music <-> Navidrome
        • Google Password Manager <-> Vaultwarden
        • Google Reader <-> FreshRSS
        • Chrome bookmarks <-> linkding
        • Google Analytics <-> GoatCounter

        And, if it still has RAM left:

        • Google Docs <-> Etherpad
        • Google Search <-> 4get

        How far can 1 GB actually go?

        • tradicije@lemmy.zipOPEnglish
          2·
          6 days ago

          Great idea! Just can’t promise I get everything setup any time soon lol. But I will try for sure.

  • 0485@lemmy.worldEnglish
    66·
    8 days ago

    Since when does a phone need a battery to run? It needs power, doesn’t matter where the power comes from.

    • tradicije@lemmy.zipOPEnglish
      96·
      8 days ago

      well ACKSHUALLY 🤓☝️

      Unfortunately Pettyl is stupid enough to need the battery to boot, but smart enough to forget about it immediately afterwards.

      I don’t make the rules, I just host WordPress on an 8-year-old Motorola.

    • ryannathans@aussie.zoneEnglish
      59·
      8 days ago

      Since their burst power consumption started using more current than a capacitor in the charging circuitry could provide

      • 87Six@lemmy.zipEnglish
        1·
        7 days ago

        So the way I see it, the root cause is dogshit design that relies on the battery

        • redjard@reddthat.comEnglish
          5·
          8 days ago

          I once soldered a usb wire into the terminals where the battery of my moto g4 used to be, and it kept crashing on boot. So I added a large capacitor right across the terminals, and even with that and being at 5V (on a 5 amp supply), some apps still overloaded it and got it to crash.

          Would love if there was some package that just attached like a battery with a usb wire coming out the bottom, that could supply any spikes if the usb provided enough average power.

          • Jul@piefed.blahaj.zoneEnglish
            5·
            8 days ago

            It’s not just the spike, but the battery is supplying more power than the adapter for sometime extended periods of time. It would take an expensive, or very large, capacitor bank to hold enough power to accomplish that for very power intensive apps. Capacitors are good at charging and discharging quickly and lasting many more cycles than a battery, but no where near the capacity.

            What you really need to know is exactly how much power the battery can provide and adjust the power supply to be able to supply that on demand and just enough capacitor capacity to smooth out the initial spike until the power supply gets the power up. I haven’t done the research to know the exact amounts, but I have a lot of experience with electrical and electronics in general, both professionally and amateur. So I could probably build it if o knew the exact specs.

            That or adjust the phone firmware to limit the processor and GPU speeds, but that’s only possible on some phones that have code available and a way to root it without some hardware switch killing the phone permanently.

      • pet the cat, walk the dog@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        7 days ago

        Fun fact, this is also why Macbooks, at least some models, throttle the CPU if the battery is missing. My old Macbook went from 2.4 GHz to 800 MHz without the battery.

    • frongt@lemmy.zipEnglish
      6·
      8 days ago

      It’s something about how the charging circuitry is constructed. I’ve asked a handful of electrical engineers about it but they’ve never given me a good answer. My guess is that it’s easier/cheaper to design and build a circuit that only powers the phone off the battery, and only uses DC to charge the battery.

  • vext01@feddit.ukEnglish
    52·
    8 days ago

    Remember the days when hou could just pop the back off and take the battery out?

    • SayCyberOnceMore@feddit.ukEnglish
      8·
      8 days ago

      That’s where I am today with my Fairphone.

      I honestly held on to my old Nokia, replacing batteries and cases until Fairphone came along and then I jumped from 90’s tech to modern day.

      0–>100% in 10 seconds (with a 2nd battery)

    • WhoIzDisIz@lemmy.todayEnglish
      7·
      8 days ago

      Still have my LG Optimus on Android 2.x somewhere. With 512MB RAM I dunno what to do with it outside of a clock display, but I have it (and a spare battery).

    • El_Scapacabra@lemmy.zipEnglish
      5·
      8 days ago

      And it would still run when you had it plugged in. I could remove the battery from my old Galaxy S2, plug it in and it would work. And if I remember correctly, the same thing went for most of the phones I had before that.

    • foggy@lemmy.worldEnglish
      33·
      8 days ago

      I used to keep a charged spare on me. And this was back when a phones battery life was like 3-7 days.

      Stop making phones thinner God dammit. I don’t want a thinner phone. I want longer battery life and a removable battery so I can fucking double the shitty longer battery life I get.

        • nullroot@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          8 days ago

          That’s kinda hard when women’s pants often have no pockets, fake pockets, or pockets so small they’re functionally useless.

          • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            6·
            8 days ago

            That’s why it’s a response to “I want…”!

            An add-on to the wishlist, as it were. I’m just an old non-tech cis woman but I firmly believe generous pockets could and should be designed/engineered/built into every twirly skirt, every thigh-high (but down near the ankle bc gravity) every booty pant and even red-carpet gala gowns. At least someone finally realized workout leggings can have a pocket down on the leg if it’s so god-damned important not to interrupt the “line” elsewhere.

            And everyone should feel free to wear whatever styles they feel suit them, with neither social stigma nor pocket-neglectful construction holding them back.

            • nullroot@lemmy.worldEnglish
              4·
              8 days ago

              Hell yeah sister! I’m 100% for this. I’m a cis guy but the clear disparity of pants pockets between gendered clothing (and clothing being gendered at all) has always irked me. Everyone should have equal access to pockets!! (Silly but serious)

      • u/lukmly013 💾 (lemmy.sdf.org)@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        5·
        8 days ago

        I used to keep a charged spare on me.

        There’s at least one Chinese brand that has smartphone with hot-swappable battery: https://rugone.net/products/xever-8

        Removable battery. Swap within 2 minutes for zero interruption. After 2 minutes, the device enters a 60-second safety lock-out to protect your data.

        Unfortunately, software from these brands tends to be shit. I feel like they just outsource it to the cheapest company. Especially following this recent thing:

        As of March 4, Sophos X-Intercept telemetry listed over 500 unique compromised Android devices across nearly 50 models. The devices were mostly low-cost models produced by the following manufacturers: Allview, BLU, Dcode, DOOGEE, Gigaset, Gionee, Lava, and Ulefone. The list did not include Alldocube devices, despite Kaspersky reportedly observing Keenadu affect that manufacturer as well.

        Source - Sophos
        Report from Kaspersky

    • undefinedTruth@lemmy.zipEnglish
      11·
      8 days ago

      Didn’t EU pass a regulation regarding that? If I recall correctly all portable devices sold in the EU after February will will need to have a user replaceable battery.

    • SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zoneEnglish
      2·
      8 days ago

      They do. They’re generally just… not very good or are very expensive.

      Samsung had a good one in the Xcover. I’d get one but… well… Samsung.

  • neidu4@piefed.socialEnglish
    25·
    8 days ago

    Anything made to be run from battery can work fine without one. Worst case scenario requires you to spoof some I²C communication to properly emulate a battery, but most devices and batteries are far dumber than that. DC is DC, and sometimes you just need to graft something on top for the other pins.

    Source: My old laptops charging circuit failed, so I soldered the charger onto the battery pins instead. Then I replaced the actual battery with an Adafruit Itsybitsy 32u4 (because that what I happened to have available) that emulated the battery status of “Charging, nothing to see here, move along” and sent it via I²C

    • ShortN0te@lemmy.mlEnglish
      6·
      8 days ago

      The charging cirtuit that also tries to guess the battery percentage can be the problem. The ‘guessed percentage’ will depending on the chip and programming go down even if you solder in a dc power supply. When it hits the 0% it will shutdown.

      Thats the case for some smart phones.

  • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.worldEnglish
    23·
    8 days ago

    My old Galaxy S5 would work without the battery, including bootup. So it’s not entirely unexpected that other phones could also do so. I would say I can’t imagine who would take the time out out of their day to just talk out their ass and claim something like this wouldn’t work without trying it first. Except then I remember this is the internet, and people do that all the time.

    Regardless, good on you for making this all work!

    • tradicije@lemmy.zipOPEnglish
      16·
      8 days ago

      Hahaha, thank you for defending me! 😄

      Just to clarify though, the “they said it couldn’t be done” part was mostly me being ironic and unnecessarily dramatic for the post lol. The comments on this whole project have actually been overwhelmingly positive and helpful.

      People here are the reason I even tried some of this stuff in the first place.

      But I genuinely appreciate you having my back. And the S5 being able to cold boot without a battery is really interesting — Pettyl unfortunately needs its battery as a starter motor. 😂

      • Bansh33@lemmy.mlEnglish
        1·
        9 hours ago

        The HTC Aria at least could also cold boot from USB power. The first method developed for bootloader unlocking on it required an SD card with the unlocking software be inserted at a particular time during the boot process. And the SD card slot was under the battery!

        Edit: now I have to double check myself; signing back into some old posts maybe I’m not remembering the process correctly. It was maybe 16 years ago, and I’m getting old! :-)

  • Gagootron@feddit.orgEnglish
    21·
    8 days ago

    When the battery in my wall mounted android tablet swelled i had to add a 10k resistor to the sense line, inject the 5V directly into the battery port and add a few capacitors to get it to work. But at least it won’t cause a fire now.

      • SuspiciousCarrot78@aussie.zoneEnglish
        4·
        8 days ago

        We are glad to inform you that your application to the USS Enterprise Engineering Department has been accepted!

        Please do not turn Admiral Archer’s beagle inside-out on day one and refrain from creating perpetual energy machines, sapient missiles or sexbots until you have undegone the requisite HR training and completed your schedule of immunisations.

  • non_burglar@lemmy.worldEnglish
    16·
    8 days ago

    Nice.

    There is often a check for battery that is effectively a check of resistance between sense and ground. Looks like that battery is labelled, you might be able to bodge a resistor between sense and ground on the phone and get it to boot without the battery?

    • ThePantser@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      11·
      8 days ago

      Here I was thinking you should add a capacitor so there is some juice if the phone draws more than the USB can supply. Maybe even a super cap so you get a more robust drain discharge cycles.

  • tradicije@lemmy.zipOPEnglish
    15·
    8 days ago

    Update! Apparently removing the battery also removes half the CPU lol.

    I’ll keep you posted!

    • Axolotl@feddit.itEnglish
      11·
      8 days ago

      Usually phones have 3 pins on the back for the battery, one of them - usually the one at the center - reads the battery resistance, so if you add a resistor between that pin and another pin, it will fool the phone to belive it has a beattery

      Edit: spelling

  • fox2263@lemmy.worldEnglish
    11·
    8 days ago

    Perhaps replace its aging battery with a new one. Then you have a built in UPS for ideal disaster recovery

  • viertesauge@feddit.orgEnglish
    11·
    8 days ago

    What did you put in place of the battery? nothing or a cap? i tried this with a moto g6 but there is not enough power delivered through its own usb port so i have to use a 5volt source+capacitor connected to the bms i saved from the battery.