The framing of depicting them alongside and identically to a bunch of things the Ukranian government wants to kill?

Since the breakup of the soviet union, Russia has invaded two nations: Georgia and the Ukraine. It invaded both for the same reason: they attempted to align themselves politically with the West and join NATO.

NATO was not founded to oppose Russian aggression. It was founded to oppose the Soviet Union. After Russia abandoned Communism, they petitioned to join NATO and the Western bloc in general. They were rejected by the West and all current hostilities stem from that rejection - Russia believed full reproachment under mutual anti-Communism was possible with the West but the West preferred their full economic subjugation.

Belarus and North Korea have been a more or less steadfast Russian allies and has never been threatened with invasion. Kazakhstan and Mongolia have maintained relatively independent political positions (playing both sides) and have never been targets of invasion. Azerbaijan has strong ties with Turkey, a NATO country, but has never attempted to join NATO itself and has friendly relations with Russia.

A NATO that includes Ukraine but not Russia is as untenable a situation as Canada having Chinese military bases lining the American border. If Canada was considering such a deal, America would invade immediately. The same would apply to Ireland hosting the Russians against the UK, or Mexico hosting the Iranians, whatever. Local rivalries are all fun and games until you start involving world power blocs. There is a reason why, despite tensions, nations like Sweden, Ireland, Canada, and Mexico do not host foreign troops; and why instances where this is threatened (the Troubles, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Russo-Georgian war of 08) the result is always proactive invasion.

The “anti invasion club” that has only ever fought offensive wars

Ukw I don’t even argue with you people on ideological basis because the very foundational assumption on which you base all your arguments is so infantile in its complexity that it doesn’t even deserve to be addressed.

Materially, Russia’s victory is objectively inevitable, short of WW3, because the West has run out of weapons to give to Ukraine, and Ukraine is going to run out of people sooner or later. Meanwhile Ukraine’s own officials are saying Russia’s production is going up because the corruption in the military has been getting rooted out as the war becomes increasingly more important for Russia.

Surely the entire world is wrong about this one

The “entire world” being the western powers of Amerika and friends.

Are you really defending the clear aggressor in an obviously unjust war?

Man it would be so cool to be a dipshit who thinks you can describe wars like a barfight between two people, as if thats how countries work. Too bad it’s not one of those just wars that Ukraine participates in, like the US-Israel war on Iran

But to reiterate, no, I’m against the Holocaust participant-worshipping nazi regime that attempted genocide on a subset of it’s own people before being stopped by Russia.

The entire world

“The entire white empire”

Anyway,

Show me the policies, show me the outlawing of culture and language, show me the death squads. I can show you all of those things from the Ukrainian government.

Show me any of this or shut up.

Entire world in question:

Do you read your own comments before posting? Do you even understand what you’re saying?

Killing civilians is not retaliation. It’s a specifically prohibited war crime, with punishment up to death for those responsible. It’s not supposed to ever happen, regardless of which side you’re on.

If someone kills your family member, you don’t get to kill a family member of theirs and call it even. That’s not how any of this works. If societies operated like this, we’d all be dead already.

By your logic - you wouldn’t mind being pointlessly slaughtered just because your government (that you didn’t vote for) decided to arbitrarily invade another country (which you protested against), would you? Or having a global nuclear wasteland, because that’s the only thing endless escalation leads to?

You don’t get to invade a country and maintain any sort of moral high ground. Israel, the US, Russia. It’s all the same shit at the end of the day.

It doesn’t matter who’s invading whom. Killing civilians is despicable, period. Anyone responsible for it should be held accountable to the highest degree possible. Regardless which side they’re from. Both Ukraine and Russia, just like both US and Iran should answer for all crimes committed. There are no excuses for any of this.

Being a victim of an invasion doesn’t immediately give you immunity or permission to do whatever the hell you feel like doing. Just like if someone breaks into your house, you don’t get to do the same or worse to them.

Oh? Does it? Can you point to where it says “we, the Ukrainian government are proclaiming to the world that we are targeting civilians?”

I don’t see any evidence to back up the claim, so I’m afraid I can’t agree to your assertion. A single image that can be interpreted in a multitude of ways (as I describe elsewhere in fact), is not any sort of proof I consider valid.

I’m greatly interested if you have other evidence to suggest the claim is true, as that would constitute a significant crime.

Edit (as it appears you have included further context in an edit): What I am wanting to see is a documented pattern of Ukrainian military personnel attacking civilians. I’m not talking about buildings - I want to see the UAF doing the same shit the IDF does to innocent Palestinians (that the world chooses to ignore).

Modern mechanized warfare by definition effectively forces civilian and military targets together because they rely on the same infrastructure to function (power plants, railroads, bridges, etc.) Does that make striking those things right? Well, no, but war itself isn’t exactly “right,” but striking those targets for their military value with civilian impact being collateral damage is a far cry from the IDF’s double-tapping of aid workers.

Removed by mod

neonazi problem Ukraine has?

The neonazi problem that is the government of Ukraine and is stuffing Ukranian men into vans to be sent to the meat grinder?

Because Russia is not doing that.

Their crimes does not make an excuse to annex a country.

Nobody is trying to annex Ukraine dude, not before the war and definitely not now. I don’t know where you guys get the idea that you can just Say Shit and have it count in an argument, but that is not the case. This war began in part because the Russian Federation would not abide the presence on their border of a fascist puppet government of a nuclear-armed enemy coalition that has helped pillage it’s economy and kill millions of it’s people within living memory.

Do you know what would happen if Russia annexed Ukraine? That’s right, their border would now be with Poland, a member of the nuclear-armed enemy coalition that etc etc. Except now their border would be a salient vulnerable from three sides and they would also be tied down by administering the basket case that western Ukraine has become. I am begging you people to stop thinking that life is a movie and Russians are the unthinking orc bad guys, and actually consider the strategic situation from their position. They don’t fucking want Ukraine. Not even NATO fucking wants Ukraine. Ukraine is a spent munition.

Russia keeps annexing independent countries

Source: my fevered dreams

And again, this is something NATO and the US do constantly, nonstop, while accusing their enemies of doing. It’s an incredibly predictable pattern. They did in in Ukraine dude. They’ve been doing it since after WW2. Invade/coup a country on the other side od the world. Install fascists to administer it for you. Declare it an independent state. Instigate further conflict, claim locals started it. We must defend South Korea. We must defend South Vietnam. We must defend Ukraine. Bam, you are now “defending the sovereignty” of a people whose government you picked for them, and whose struggling bodies you have thrown into conscription vans for a war you started from thousands of miles away and are making bank off of. It is so very depressing that after most of a century, this trick still works on liberals, and it works because they want to believe it.

But I’m sure foreign intervention is cool to you types, after all the US does it so it’s fine right?

-You in 1944, smugly opposing D-Day