Boy that’s not good. I’m not surprised, but it’s still not good.

The intelligent thing to do is to commission studies and reach out programs to understand WHY far right parties like AfD are surging in the polls. That way you can actually understand the concerns of the people who choose to support these parties, the reasons why they’re supporting far right parties over less extreme alternatives, and what deradicalization methods are actually effective.

The dumb thing to do is to make assumptions as to why these parties are growing in popularity, and double down on them eternally regardless of how invalid or wrong those assumptions are. It’s equally as stupid to try to use force and censorship to exclude these people from public life instead of addressing the underlying issues that led to this situation in the first place. It’s like the establishment is trying to give these movements validation, martyrs, and reasons to radicalize further.

I don’t have disagreements with the point you’re making. I was just confused why the topic switched from the crew being detained to Palestinians being unfairly imprisoned. They’re not really the same thing.

Regardless though, apparently Israel has routed the boat to Ashdod and is detaining the activists in a nearby facility until they get deported to their respective countries. So I guess this conversation doesn’t mean much since debating whether or not they’re hostages isn’t applicable anymore.

Okay, so actually we now know how the situation has and will unfold so there’s no need to speculate.

As it turns out, the boat was actually routed to the port of Ashdod. All 12 activists are fine and they’re currently being detained in a facility nearby after undergoing medical checks. They’re going to stay there until they get deported to their respective countries.

Israel claims that the aid that was on bored will get sent to Gaza through established channels, but whether that will happen is questionable. Also Israel also said that they’re apparently going to make the activists watch videos of the Oct 7th terrorist attacks before deporting them.

Sources: https://apnews.com/article/mideast-wars-gaza-flotilla-greta-thunberg-b64e897fb37ee374e4494381304ff9be

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-flotilla-greta-thunberg-october-7-attack-footage-israel-b2766268.html

Yes, you’re exactly right. The only thing Gaza has that they can use as leverage are the hostages, and when 12 new ones show up right at their doorstep, are they going to let the opportunity pass them by? Of course not. The activists themselves understand this which is why they didn’t make a real effort to actually land. The point is to generate media attention by getting intercepted.

You would think this is common sense, but people on this site lack it. The sheer amount of users here who are simply incapable of even explaining their positions is baffling.

I mean we have to go based on the evidence that we have, right? We can’t make up scenarios and pretend they’re reality when they’re not. In this case, Israel radioed the boat to change course to the port of Ashdod and informed the activists that maritime traffic is closed. After that the boat has been intercepted. That’s all we know thus far. Beyond this point, it’s just speculation. I’m saying that based on the history of these incidents, the intercepted boats do actually get routed to the port Ashdod, and then from there the activists are taken into custody until Israeli authorities contact their respective embassies who will help organize their release.

No, I’m just giving you proper context. People like you are so dishonest because you’re willing to believe and spread misinformation if it confirms your biases and you accuse anything that doesn’t as being supportive of the opposite, and that’s just not true.

Israel’s blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law, but the interception and detainment of these activists is not illegal under Israeli law, which is the legal framework that matters here.

That’s not where the security concern comes from. If they allow this boat to land then that means their blockade isn’t perfect, and there are cracks to exploit, and you can be sure that these cracks will be exploited. Also, more importantly, if they actually step foot in Gaza, there’s a very high chance they’ll either get killed or be taken as hostages. That will cause another round international outrage that Israel would rather avoid. It’s much simpler to intercept them and send them back to their countries after contacting their countries respective embassies.

I’m not defending it, I’m just pointing that the detainment of this point and it’s crew is technically legal. Agreeing or disagreeing with is irrelevant to the point.

I suspect Hamas took a page out of Bin Laden’s playbook, and expected Oct 7 to invite an extreme reaction, the same way Sept 11 drew America into two decades of war, thousands of deaths, and trillions of dollars.

I don’t think Bin Laden predicted America’s reaction to 9/11, most of the world, including Americans didn’t either. I also don’t think Hamas has the capacity to be this strategic. I think it really is as simple as it was. They planned a bunch of terrorist attacks to cause as much harm and damage as possible to Israel and Israelis, and then take a bunch of civilians hostage to escape the consequences that would ensue. I think Hamas banked on Israel’s history of giving up a lot to retrieve their hostages to sign a ceasefire right after the attacks and get the hostages back. They probably didn’t expect Israel to ditch the hostages and start bombing Gaza into oblivion like this.

America will never recover from 9/11, and Israel will never recover from 10/7, no matter how many Muslims they murder.

Countries will always recover from tragedy. If Japan can recover after being burned down and nuked, if Poland can recover from a century of Nazi and Soviet occupation, if China can recover from the worst famine in history, then countries can recover from terrorist attacks and their aftermath.

Though I agree with you that trying to wipe out terrorist groups with force is futile. You can’t erase ideologies with violence. What America did and Israel is doing now is playing a futile game of whackomole where the only thing they end up achieving is killing a lot of innocent people and throwing obscene amounts of money down the drain.

The aid is just symbolic. Gaza has 2 million people, a single small sailboat worth of partial cargo isn’t enough to even be considered a drop in the bucket. The only real way humanitarian aid can make a difference is if Israel and Egypt allow hundreds of tucks in daily.

This is actually based on what they did in during the 2010 incident. At the same there 6 boats, not one like this time. 3 of the boats at the time were for cargo and 3 were for passengers. 5 of the boats that were intercepted went through what I described above, but the last one was the one you’re talking about. It was one of the passenger boats, it has 590 passengers on board. Of these passengers, 40 or so of them refused to cooperate with the Israeli soldiers on board and some started attacking them. This resulted in the Israeli soldiers killing 9, a 10th one died 4 years later due to related injuries, and injured a dozens more. At the same time the activists injured 10 Israeli soldiers, including one that was in serious condition. Even then, the rest of the passengers were still released after the incident.

A single small sailboat with barely any cargo capacity and with 12 activists on board, is enough evidence to determine that this is just a publicity stunt. The group claims to have taken different types of supplies as aid, but they didn’t give specific numbers. The only ones that I could find with numbers were 100kg of flour, 250kg of rice, and 600 diapers. Keep in mind, that’s 2 50kg bags of flour, 5 50kg bags of rice, and 3 large boxes of diapers. You could fit the amounts they’ve taken for these 3 supplies in the back of a typical pickup truck. The supplies on the ship are clearly just symbolic.

The event you’re referring to didn’t have a single boat. It was a fleet of 8 boats, but 2 of them were lagging behind due to mechanical issues. The 6 boats that continued ahead were radioed by Israel informing them that maritime traffic is closed and that they had to change course to the port of Ashdod if they wanted to continue. They denied the request and so the Israeli navy sent out patrol boats to intercept them.

5 of the 6 boats were intercepted without any issues, but one of the boats, the MV Mavi Marmara, which also had the highest number of passengers at 590, had around 40 of its passengers refuse to cooperate with the soldiers and started attacking them. This resulted in the soldiers killing 9 of them on the spot (a 10th died years later due to related injuries) and injured dozens more, and the activists ended up injuring 10 of the soldiers on board, including one who was in critical condition.

It was unfortunate situation all around, but it is nothing like this situation. Vastly different scales, crews, and interactions.

Sources: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla#Ties_with_groups_marked_as_terror_organizations

This literally just a bunch of meaningless word salad. You either actually explain your disagreement or concede that you have nothing.

Illegal? No, most countries arrest people on grounds of probable cause. In this case, Israel can just cite that they arrested this crew for national security reasons, which is technically legal. During their arrest they’ll determine whether or not they want to file charges against them. If they do then they’ll proceed to a trail, otherwise they’ll be released.

You understand we’re talking about this crew, right? You understand you posting this has zero relevance to the claim you made or the topic at hand, right?

I’m sorry, but I’m having a difficult time understanding what you’re asking. Are you asking if someone counts as a hostage if they got abducted by someone else just for vengeance? If so, then no, they’re not hostages. This would be considered a kidnapping.

What part is untrue?

It literally doesn’t matter, they’re not going to step foot into an active war zone. The purpose of this whole stunt is get media attention.