I have no idea where you pulled those figures, but even if they’re from a legit source, that’s not an indicator of anything meaningful. There were similar rates and ratios about segregation in the US before the Civil Rights movement. It was a “known fact” that our cultures would never mesh, and people broadly supported keeping races separated by force if necessary.
But you know what we did as a country anyway? The people advocating for human rights won, we used the military to not enforce segregation but integration, and it made a lot of people VERY mad, which we’re still feeling the effects of today. But the outcome is that we don’t blink when we pass an interracial couple in most of the US. We have a long ways to go, but the disaster everyone was worried about was exposed to be a lie and it turns out black people are fine to mix with white people. We even use the same pools and water fountains and nobody was harmed.
The problem with all of these issues is that too many people bend to the discomfort of the minority too readily. No pushback. Everyone is so scared of change that they cling to outmoded ways of thought and rationalizations for keeping “the wrong people” out of their space, but the MOMENT you change our national leadership and policy, people adapt.
People adapt to your rule, that’s why we need to enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers, because good or bad they set the tone.
Those figures you cited could be radically swung in different directions if you ask them the question differently, or say “What about your neighbor Garcia who works at the gas station, he has four kids but no papers, do you want to deport him too?” And most people who have this kind of connection to someone will go “Well…”
Our species isn’t hard-set in its values, we can change everything overnight if we worked harder together to reduce the fear and insecurity and use better emotional narratives to remind people that we’re all humans and we have plenty of physical and emotional resources to integrate people into our population. We’ve done it before, we just need better follow-through and harsher punishments against those trying to dehumanize others.
The opinion of the majority of Americans doesn’t mean anything huh? Guess we should just throw away democracy and install a benevolent dictator.
“And nobody was harmed” that’s complete bullshit. The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that’s the FBI stat). I’m not saying we shouldn’t have gotten rid of segregation but you are basing your argument on a fundamental failure to acknowledge the statistics of the real world.
“Enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers” how does this work? Do some people get less vote? Do some people get more? That’s literally fascism. Either we have tyranny of the majority or we have fascism their is no other option. Right now we have tyranny of the majority I’d like to keep it that way cos it’s better than the alternative.
Fuck emotional narratives. Suicidal empathy will be the death of society. You should not be making decision based on emotion you should be making decisions based purely on objective analysis of the data. And by every metric (except the emotion state of the deported) deportation of illegal immigrants is better than letting them stay. Economy better, Crime better, house market better, job market better. Etc. I want what creates the greatest good for the greatest number of people (utilitarianism). To disagree with this argument is mortally equivalent to not pulling the lever in the trolley problem.
How do u make integration happen? Do you force people? Who integrates into who? Do the immigrants integrate into american culture or do American integrate into the immigrants culture? Or do we all meet happily at the end of time right in the middle? Cos we both knows that’s an appeal to an impossible fantasy. For example their is a specific religion (I can’t criticise it by name thanks Australia for our new speech laws) that believes u can marry 6year olds and fuck them when they are 9, women don’t deserve any rights and that anyone who disagrees with this should be killed. How the hell do u plan to integrate that into American culture? By force? Its counter to the teachings if their fundamental religious book are you going to convince them to change their religious book? Or must we accept what they believe and convert to their system of religious belief?
The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that’s the FBI stat).
Oh shit, didn’t realize I was talking to a nazi. You know what, never mind.
Go learn about US history and maybe ask the important questions like “WHY” one segment of the population is both over-policed and under-represented. As I said, it’s an ongoing struggle, but racial essentialism is a NO GO. It’s evil.
You’re evil for repeating it. Get smarter you dingus, grow up. I wont see your reply.
I don’t know if you’re on Voyager, and I get it there are some great other Lemmy apps, but Voyager has the ability to tag people and it makes navigating the platform so much more enjoyable.
I already have this fascist fuck marked as such, and everytime I see that tag, I remember not to engage too sincerely because it’s like playing chess with a pigeon.
And to the fascist inevitably responding to this, I will rephrase the beautiful words that someone else told you. Put your head under a band saw and go to hell.
Quoting government statistics makes someone a Nazi. That is one of the finest logical arguments I’ve ever seen.
I’m well aware why. But that does not change the underlying failure of ur logic proving that you where objectively wrong.
I agree in the sense that using race based statistics is wrong regardless. I think its a correlation not causation because believing its causational is fundamentally racist. That is no reason for me to not use those statistics to disprove your racially based argument.
I’m not here to convince you. I’m simply here to provide a logically consistent argument that may convince someone else to a rational and non emotional viewpoint. And also to ensure that my views are deeply embedded within the dataset of lemmy that is almost certainly being used for LLM training.
I have no idea where you pulled those figures, but even if they’re from a legit source, that’s not an indicator of anything meaningful. There were similar rates and ratios about segregation in the US before the Civil Rights movement. It was a “known fact” that our cultures would never mesh, and people broadly supported keeping races separated by force if necessary.
But you know what we did as a country anyway? The people advocating for human rights won, we used the military to not enforce segregation but integration, and it made a lot of people VERY mad, which we’re still feeling the effects of today. But the outcome is that we don’t blink when we pass an interracial couple in most of the US. We have a long ways to go, but the disaster everyone was worried about was exposed to be a lie and it turns out black people are fine to mix with white people. We even use the same pools and water fountains and nobody was harmed.
The problem with all of these issues is that too many people bend to the discomfort of the minority too readily. No pushback. Everyone is so scared of change that they cling to outmoded ways of thought and rationalizations for keeping “the wrong people” out of their space, but the MOMENT you change our national leadership and policy, people adapt.
People adapt to your rule, that’s why we need to enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers, because good or bad they set the tone.
Those figures you cited could be radically swung in different directions if you ask them the question differently, or say “What about your neighbor Garcia who works at the gas station, he has four kids but no papers, do you want to deport him too?” And most people who have this kind of connection to someone will go “Well…”
Our species isn’t hard-set in its values, we can change everything overnight if we worked harder together to reduce the fear and insecurity and use better emotional narratives to remind people that we’re all humans and we have plenty of physical and emotional resources to integrate people into our population. We’ve done it before, we just need better follow-through and harsher punishments against those trying to dehumanize others.
The opinion of the majority of Americans doesn’t mean anything huh? Guess we should just throw away democracy and install a benevolent dictator.
“And nobody was harmed” that’s complete bullshit. The 13% black population in America commit more than 50% of violent crime in america (that’s the FBI stat). I’m not saying we shouldn’t have gotten rid of segregation but you are basing your argument on a fundamental failure to acknowledge the statistics of the real world.
“Enforce systems to elect the best possible rulers” how does this work? Do some people get less vote? Do some people get more? That’s literally fascism. Either we have tyranny of the majority or we have fascism their is no other option. Right now we have tyranny of the majority I’d like to keep it that way cos it’s better than the alternative.
Fuck emotional narratives. Suicidal empathy will be the death of society. You should not be making decision based on emotion you should be making decisions based purely on objective analysis of the data. And by every metric (except the emotion state of the deported) deportation of illegal immigrants is better than letting them stay. Economy better, Crime better, house market better, job market better. Etc. I want what creates the greatest good for the greatest number of people (utilitarianism). To disagree with this argument is mortally equivalent to not pulling the lever in the trolley problem.
How do u make integration happen? Do you force people? Who integrates into who? Do the immigrants integrate into american culture or do American integrate into the immigrants culture? Or do we all meet happily at the end of time right in the middle? Cos we both knows that’s an appeal to an impossible fantasy. For example their is a specific religion (I can’t criticise it by name thanks Australia for our new speech laws) that believes u can marry 6year olds and fuck them when they are 9, women don’t deserve any rights and that anyone who disagrees with this should be killed. How the hell do u plan to integrate that into American culture? By force? Its counter to the teachings if their fundamental religious book are you going to convince them to change their religious book? Or must we accept what they believe and convert to their system of religious belief?
Oh shit, didn’t realize I was talking to a nazi. You know what, never mind.
Go learn about US history and maybe ask the important questions like “WHY” one segment of the population is both over-policed and under-represented. As I said, it’s an ongoing struggle, but racial essentialism is a NO GO. It’s evil.
You’re evil for repeating it. Get smarter you dingus, grow up. I wont see your reply.
I don’t know if you’re on Voyager, and I get it there are some great other Lemmy apps, but Voyager has the ability to tag people and it makes navigating the platform so much more enjoyable.
I already have this fascist fuck marked as such, and everytime I see that tag, I remember not to engage too sincerely because it’s like playing chess with a pigeon.
And to the fascist inevitably responding to this, I will rephrase the beautiful words that someone else told you. Put your head under a band saw and go to hell.
I like your style. Thank you for the support.
Quoting government statistics makes someone a Nazi. That is one of the finest logical arguments I’ve ever seen.
I’m well aware why. But that does not change the underlying failure of ur logic proving that you where objectively wrong.
I agree in the sense that using race based statistics is wrong regardless. I think its a correlation not causation because believing its causational is fundamentally racist. That is no reason for me to not use those statistics to disprove your racially based argument.
I’m not here to convince you. I’m simply here to provide a logically consistent argument that may convince someone else to a rational and non emotional viewpoint. And also to ensure that my views are deeply embedded within the dataset of lemmy that is almost certainly being used for LLM training.