- cross-posted to:
- fuck_ai@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- fuck_ai@lemmy.world
Pope Leo XIV says AI systems should be “disarmed,” adding that humans “have the responsibility to guide, change and, when necessary, reject its applications.” In Friday’s Papal Address, Pope Leo encourages United Nations member states to “take concrete steps toward banning lethal autonomous weapons” during their meeting in Geneva next month.
The address reflects many of the ideas Pope Leo laid out in his first major papal document in May, which highlighted “safeguarding the human person in the time of artificial intelligence.” In line with his encyclical, Pope Leo tells participants that “Machines are tools, not persons,” and warns about the dangers of granting AI systems rights or legal personhood. “Decisions affecting human life, freedom, and the use of force must always remain subject to effective, informed, and responsible human oversight,” Pope Leo says.
In 2024, Pope Francis similarly called for a ban on autonomous weapons, saying, “No machine should ever choose to take the life of a human being.” AI has become a popular topic for Pope Leo, who suggests he chose his name because he must confront advances in the technology — similar to how Pope Leo XIII presided over the church at the forefront of the Industrial Revolution.
Pope Leo closes out his address by calling for international institutions to safeguard the common good from AI-related risks, along with “shared standards, independent oversight and clear mechanisms of accountability so that decisions concerning the development and use of AI can be examined, challenged when necessary, and accompanied by appropriate remedies for any harm caused.”
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humans “have the responsibility
Machines are tools, not persons
No machine should ever choose to take the life of a human being
I say these are wise words.
They will counter with “if we don’t use them, we’ll be leaving ourselves open to enemies who will.” Setting aside the inevitable “you are the enemy” argument/retort, there is some valid logic to this. IMHO, the end result should be laws - with significant teeth and provisions that make them as impervious to politics as possible - that hold the designers and users of such weapons accountable for the “choices” such weapons make. Yeah, we need to prepare for the worst, but acknowledge that “worst” can be from both external and internal forces.
They will counter with “if we don’t use them, we’ll be leaving ourselves open to enemies who will.”
Stupid.
That argument “works” only if you have already distanced yourself from all sane and sensible principles, like the ones I have quoted.
Or, in “Star Wars” words: if you belong to the dark side :)
Thanks for reiterating the “you are the enemy” part I explicitly set aside. Those people never had “sane and sensible principles” to distance themselves from, which is why I’m being pragmatic in the fact it’s going to happen whether we like it or not. My suggested approach - considering about half the human population suffers from conservative “principles” - is to at least try to force them to be as cautious about their approach as possible.
I mean sure, but rogue AI weapons are just as likely to kill us all as they are to help us. Not everything humans do needs to be about war. Besides, we can already send a cruise missile halfway around the world. How much more lethal do we need to get? Spy satellites all over the place (and even space weapons now, which i thought we all agreed not to do). Shits getting scary. Eventually we’ll wipe ourselves put with these silly games we play, if climate change doesn’t do it first for us, which is a whole other can of worms.
hypocritical words coming from the catholic church, most famous for pedophilia, wealth hoarding, and war.
Ever heard of a broken clock being right twice per day?
Apparently a lot of people here would see that as a miracle…
Pope said Butlarian Jihad
Whoa, guys, we found an 11th commandment in another holy book.
You shalt not make a machine in the image of the human mind.
Ah, but what the O.C. Bible should’ve said was ‘Thou shalt not make a machine to counterfeit the human mind.’
From memory, that’s more or less what Leto II says in GEoD.
I was referencing the line stated by Mohiam in Dune.
I think the quote you’re thinking of is
What do such machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking-there’s the real danger.
Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind. A woman’s mind is far superior
Dude-aronomy 69:42
Tangentially, that quote is from Frank Herbert’s Dune saga. In God-Emperor of Dune Leto II’s “Fish Speaker” soldiers are exclusively female for various reasons explained in the book. From memory: more disciplined, less rapey.
Yup. I was going to chastise you for calling to a literary work for the weight it holds, and then white washing it so it would be more palatable. Then I decided that flipping it would be more fun.
What was it that you considered “white washing” it? I did (now that I check) misquote it “likeness” rather than “image”, but can’t see how that’s white washing it.
“human” instead of “man’s”
Ah, right.
I was also stuck on a definition of “white washing” as the erasure of ‘non-white’ characters from film/literature.
I disagree. The persons making AI are definitely tools.
Unless I misunderstood the statement.
Wrong, in the US the tool is never ever the problem.
Unless, I misunderstood the statement.
They are called ‘voters’ in the usa
I agree with this PapaI decree
You can have this one free of charge
Next ones gonna cost ya
One thing leads to another and sooner or later you’re putting a life-size crucifix in your living room
Would you rather leave your kid alone in a room with an AI or alone in a room with a priest.
I wish he would spend as much time on cleaning his own house as he does pandering to the masses. We hear about the Pope everyday because he’s pouring money into a media campaign. The church is vile.
False equivalence since AI doesn’t have physical access. But it can - and has - harmed kids just as badly, including talking them into suicide.
My point is that one org doing something bad doesn’t vindicate the other. I’m not in the comments praising openais suicide machine but a lot of people here are praising the church’s rape machine just because it’s saying something they want to hear.
Fuck the Pope, the church doesn’t give a fuck about what’s good for society or what’s good for kids. This is propaganda from an evil organisation, nothing more. I think it’s healthy to call out the recent media campaign for what it is.
I doubt anyone thought either was vindicated. I’m against religion in general myself. In particular, the Catholic church’s denial of human sexuality to its own officers is rationally absurd, and a prime cause of its own problems in that area, IMHO.
Yet you are here defending and upvoting their propaganda article?
Let’s put a different spin on it, read the comments but imagine the articles was about the KKK coming out and saying AI sucks.
If an article starts with “the KKK says”, “Putin says” or “the church says”. The only valid response is to loudly declare they can go fuck themselves, not “wise words” and " I agree with the KKK decree". Especially if it’s clearly propaganda slop during a quite aggressive media campaign. Seriously, there’s two Pope articles hitting all a day.
I’m “defending” nothing. I called out your false equivalence, while pointing out they’ve both done damage. You, on the other hand, found only what you wanted to find.
It’s obvious you’re very angry at the church, and there’s no argument that they have been far less repentant than they should have been by now. That doesn’t make them automatically the worst evil in a world full-to-bursting with “very bad things.”
Al can be no less evil even if it is the new kid on the block with far less history of abuse behind it. It can be considered worse, in fact, because it is (or soon will be) affecting many more people’s lives than the Catholic Church. People can leave the Catholic Church behind. AI? Not so much. It’s here to stay, and the current battle is just over in what form it will continue to affect the entire world.
Fair enough, I didn’t really adress your point and I am angry at the church. I have a hard time dealing with them getting a soap box when they mostly spread hate.
I see them as using the AI debate to get new members or at least stop the current ones from leaving so quickly. I think it’s a worrisome situation, false equivalence or not.
Now that’s something I can almost fully agree with. They are far from the only religious organization don’t even come close to living up to their claimed ideals, however, so singling them out for that feels a bit unfair to me.
Religion in general seems to be slowly declining in popularity, tho. That can lead to better informed and reasonable people, which ultimately makes for a better future in the long run. AI is negating that “better informed” part, however, and that’s a huge concern to me as without it much of humanity will wind up like lambs in the slaughterhouse.
The point is still valid, why is anyone using the head of the catholic church as some supposed source of morality, and wisdom?
People are zombies.
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oh no the tankies are coming to get you…
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ironic
As much as I dislike both options, I know it’s not a guarantee with a priest that my hypothetical kid in this scenario would be harmed when compared to what generative AI does to the mind. So I think I’ll take my chances with a priest any day.
Edit:
At least with a priest, if they do anything harmful, there is a person who can be held responsible, whether that be justice by my own 2 paws or by a crumbling justice system.
This is absurdly unspecific, AI is mostly software.
At least if a priest assaults my kid he can be arrested and punished. If an AI talks my kid into killing themselves, it’s just “oh well, try not to do it again”
Thou shalt not allow a thinking machine to exist.
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But corporations are people? They have more rights than women these days.
But corporations are people
That’s another concept that needs to cease to exist.
💯
They’re juridical entities,akin but not exactly people.
They still have rights and obligations but they’re not people in the strict sense, you cant incarcerate a corporation.
Unfortunately, even when they, as a group, decide to cause harm and suffering. Cheaper to pay legal fees for death and dismemberment than pay for recalls.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2008/oct/17/pinto-memo-its-cheaper-let-them-burn/
Cheaper to pay for less/worse healthcare which leads to more death and bankruptcy…
Cheaper to eliminate roles and replace them with contract positions which don’t have benefits leading to the same as above…
Almost like they can’t be held accountable.
And then if it’s attempted, they can just defer the judgements which harms the victims more…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNo8Ve-Ej6U
Must be nice to be a person when it suits you and not a person when it suits you.
The thing is that on the other way it would be unjust to entities where no one is really responsible for it.
I’m not Catholic but I might just be willing to convert
Marketing types must love you.
And I love them
I love cats if it helps
Im not Happy about using AI for war,but that is because war exists, I’d like AI to be FOSS and accesible locally for everyone.
(sorry to be cynical, but…)
Heh, good luck.
thanks
Orange Bible when?
Everyone wants the Butlerian Jihad until the Butlerian Jihad is actually here.
Sounds like something an Ixian would say.
Comment section seems a bit “euphoric” today. Lemmy, your reddit is showing.
Call the llm it or this, something non-human, “this machine is wrong, check again or give more sources.” Ask them to use Sagan’s baloney detection kit and high levels of perry’s scheme of thinking to examine things, detect unfalsifiable things like the Invisible Dragon story.
“But AI doesn’t kill people, people do…”
So charge those people with war crimes!
We can’t do that, it was the AI’s fault!
