I think it was a fairly reasonable conclusion from your response to this comment:
That isn’t really what people are saying. It’s more that voting cannot bring about socialism, while revolution can, and that therefore treating voting as the primary political outlet for people hampers the organizing efforts needed for revolution.
If you can explain your views better, and what you believe socialists believe, then it would be easier for me to know. I’m sorry if I misrepresented your views, but you aren’t doing your views any favors with the endless strawmen.
I never lied about your position. I genuinely responded to what I believed your position to be, and invited you to correct me. I will not lie about my own position just to satisfy you.
I never once said your claim was “don’t organize, only vote.” I said you claimed voting to be more effective than organizing in the immediate moment. I asked for you to explain this, then you called me a liar.
I am specifically referring to building up a disciplined, educated, united working-class party that can develop cadre, struggle alongside the rest of the working class in union struggles, tenant struggles, political struggles, and educate the masses and agitate among them to connect these struggles to the struggle of the working class itself against capitalists and capitalism itself. No less than this. The goal is to create an organization that is correct, capable, and trusted by the rest of the working classes in the event of crisis, to where the struggle can be taken from the crisis to a revolution to establish socialism.
Each aspect of party-building and labor struggles is a part of organizing. The civil rights movement was won through organizing and struggle, as an example.
Why funnel people into an imperialist party? When you tell people their primary means of opposition is at the ballot box, they don’t organize. How do you grow a party in opposition to both the DNC and GOP while propping up the DNC? This isn’t even extending to what you personally choose to do, in secret, if genocide and imperialism aren’t hard red lines for you and voting for the DNC sits with you morally. I am talking about the practical process of growing an org.
Do you organize? I don’t mean this in a “I do more than you” kind of way, I mean it in the sense that it seems like you are using voting as an outlet to not organize, because others haven’t built an org big enough for you already yet.
will that goal be achieved by, say, early November?
Funny how we can do long-term thinking when it comes to arguing for voting for genocidal fascists, but as soon as anyone suggests an alternative, it suddenly has to be immediate.
The easiest way to put a bump in the road is to vote against Republicans
All you’re doing is changing who drives the car. They’re doing the same shit.
Don’t act so pompous, it’s on you to selectively ignore points being made and misinterpreting the rest. You’re not owed any apologies for acting like an ass.
Can you please explain what these “more immediate political concerns” are that voting is more important for than organizing?
I think I’d rather have an apology first if I’m going to do you any favors. You just spat out a lie about me and you’re going to brush it off?
I think it was a fairly reasonable conclusion from your response to this comment:
If you can explain your views better, and what you believe socialists believe, then it would be easier for me to know. I’m sorry if I misrepresented your views, but you aren’t doing your views any favors with the endless strawmen.
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I never lied about your position. I genuinely responded to what I believed your position to be, and invited you to correct me. I will not lie about my own position just to satisfy you.
I never once said your claim was “don’t organize, only vote.” I said you claimed voting to be more effective than organizing in the immediate moment. I asked for you to explain this, then you called me a liar.
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I am specifically referring to building up a disciplined, educated, united working-class party that can develop cadre, struggle alongside the rest of the working class in union struggles, tenant struggles, political struggles, and educate the masses and agitate among them to connect these struggles to the struggle of the working class itself against capitalists and capitalism itself. No less than this. The goal is to create an organization that is correct, capable, and trusted by the rest of the working classes in the event of crisis, to where the struggle can be taken from the crisis to a revolution to establish socialism.
Each aspect of party-building and labor struggles is a part of organizing. The civil rights movement was won through organizing and struggle, as an example.
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Why funnel people into an imperialist party? When you tell people their primary means of opposition is at the ballot box, they don’t organize. How do you grow a party in opposition to both the DNC and GOP while propping up the DNC? This isn’t even extending to what you personally choose to do, in secret, if genocide and imperialism aren’t hard red lines for you and voting for the DNC sits with you morally. I am talking about the practical process of growing an org.
Do you organize? I don’t mean this in a “I do more than you” kind of way, I mean it in the sense that it seems like you are using voting as an outlet to not organize, because others haven’t built an org big enough for you already yet.
Funny how we can do long-term thinking when it comes to arguing for voting for genocidal fascists, but as soon as anyone suggests an alternative, it suddenly has to be immediate.
All you’re doing is changing who drives the car. They’re doing the same shit.
Don’t act so pompous, it’s on you to selectively ignore points being made and misinterpreting the rest. You’re not owed any apologies for acting like an ass.
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This is just projection lol