I disagree that asking the question, “How do you determine your personal values without referencing your personal values?” is sealioning; it is the entire point of the discussion itself, and if you can answer this question fairly, the discussion is over.
But I do agree that this thread is not worth expanding.
I would contend that experience informs values and that original values come from your parents, but I was not trying to wade in because it didn’t feel like good faith. Values are evolving over time and are based on feedback for sure, but there’s more to it than just that.
I agree. There’s a lot of influences that go into your values; I’m just saying a conscious decision is not one of them–that “conscious decision” is really just an expression of all those other influences.
That doesn’t mean that thinking about your values is a waste of time–it’s good to know what is important to you on a conscious level and that can help you guide decisions rationally and avoid situations you might otherwise get yourself into.
Recognizing that values are received and not chosen is also a hedge against feeling superior to others because you chose the “right” values and they chose the “wrong” values.
Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?
The question is answered by a personal set of values that you didn’t get to choose.
Edit: Anyone seeing this outside from the top of the thread, don’t waste your time following it, it is not worth it. Take the shorter route below.
I disagree that asking the question, “How do you determine your personal values without referencing your personal values?” is sealioning; it is the entire point of the discussion itself, and if you can answer this question fairly, the discussion is over.
But I do agree that this thread is not worth expanding.
Well alright fair enough.
I would contend that experience informs values and that original values come from your parents, but I was not trying to wade in because it didn’t feel like good faith. Values are evolving over time and are based on feedback for sure, but there’s more to it than just that.
I agree. There’s a lot of influences that go into your values; I’m just saying a conscious decision is not one of them–that “conscious decision” is really just an expression of all those other influences.
That doesn’t mean that thinking about your values is a waste of time–it’s good to know what is important to you on a conscious level and that can help you guide decisions rationally and avoid situations you might otherwise get yourself into.
Recognizing that values are received and not chosen is also a hedge against feeling superior to others because you chose the “right” values and they chose the “wrong” values.
Fair, I’ll update my original comment.
You absolutely get to choose your personal values.
Yes and you do so based on your personal values.
Do you see the issue?
No.
You’re arguing in circles.
Expand your ideas.
It is indeed circular!
Tell me how you choose your personal values without referencing personal values?
Obviously, you choose your values based on what your values already are.
You might think you are choosing, but it’s an illusion. All you’re really doing is revealing the values you already have to your conscious mind.
In fact, judging by your inability to process transparent truths, I’m going to guess you put a high value on personal freedom and agency.
You’re just playing with words to incite a useless argument.
Interesting choice.
Thanks for proving my point.