Online or offline. News keeps reporting about loneliness and disconnection, but in my experience it’s just that it’s harder to interact with people in a civil way because they are so hostile, angry, and arrogantly convinced their viewpoints and experiences are the only legitimate ones.
Not to mention the lack of civility towards servers and other service workers. I can’t recall if I was just indifferent 10 years ago, but on a almost daily basis it blows my mind how openly rude many people are to servers and such, which seemed like a much more rare thing when I was younger.
Algorithmic (and I specifically mean the ones meant to drive engagement through rage/fear) social media is the biggest tipping point in my mind, particularly when people started having it in their pockets with smartphones all the time. To a lesser degree, when always-on internet became common.
I think of interacting with people in '26, '16, '06 (no widespread smartphones yet), '96 (no widespread cellphones yet), teens chatting on phones and the newfangled IM thing for those with internet and computers at home, and '86 (though I was rather young) when online communication was still quite niche (BBS’s and the like). I would say that that the tipping point came around 2010 +/- a couple of years (probably varying by region).
I would be remiss not to mention the 24/7 news cycle ushered in in the wake of 9-11 (2001) and fox news and such after that also playing in the same dark ways.
Edit: also, third spaces going away changed a lot. We, though moreso people a bit older than me, were involved in community sports leagues, moose lodge (or whatever similar), and other community organizations. This put a lot of people with differing opinions in the same spaces. That doesn’t happen nearly as much anymore.
I was part of a third space for years. But I left because people decided it had to be a ‘safe space’, and started getting nasty and confrontational to people who didn’t look/talk/speak like them. This was in '23, like right after we opened back up from COVID closures… basically they wanted to restrict it to only ‘the right kind of people’.
It was sad and gross and I left in protest. And they labeled me ‘one of the bad people’.
And I have noticed a lot of public spaces are more like this now, they are less public and more about ‘only people who aren’t different than us’ are allowed or invited to be there.
Not only is social media designed to be addictive, it hardens our divisions. Combine that with a media ecosystem that saturates us with frictionless content at a scale and speed that are unmatched, a government intentionally stoking division and breaking norms, and an environment that primes us for manipulation, our psyches strain under the weight and the affects are apparent in the way we act and view the world. We haven’t been assaulted like this before.
Eleven. It was easier to talk with people eleven years ago. By about this time in 2016 it was too late.
I’ve noticed a very notable dropoff. As you said, people are angrier, but more-so I’ve noticed that far fewer people are willing/able to be open and empathetic, especially towards others. It feels like all that’s left is surface-level talk and shared activities, with no real care or consideration for those you’re with. For example, within my own circles, the things we used to do to mutually support one another have almost entirely stopped, and as no one discusses anything deeper than what they did today, connections are starting to die off.
people are willing/able to be open and empathetic
personally, I’ve been bitten too many times being open to random people and getting vitriol back. Well that may be because at the height of my online activities were in reddit, just at the right moment when it started gaining mass traction and getting all sorts of assholes.
being here in lemmy/piefed (can we settle on calling it threadiverse yet?) is of course a nice breath of fresh air.
Agreed. I feel like the definition of what empathy is also changed. Most people seem to use the term in a very adversarial way now, and not, as you said, in the sense of mutual exchange.
I definitely miss that sense of exchanging things, especially without expectation. Now it feels everyone is in a kind of empathy stand-off, or has all these ‘requirements’ you have to pass before you’re worthy of their regard as a fellow human being.
In 2016? No about the same as now. 15 years ago in 2011? Yes.
Why, did something happen in 2016 that give all of the worst people in the world permission to go mask-off?
Trump happened.
The first Deadpool movie. Only reasonable explanation
There have always been bad people, but I think that, so to speak, they periodically gain a lot of influence.
The current situation seems to me to stem from the success of the Tea Party movement in the U.S., which also appears to have thrown things off balance internationally. They’ve established a new kind of anti-politics and, unfortunately, have been quite successful with it—relying on crude rabble-rousing, hatred, and a complete lack of willingness to engage in any constructive cooperation. That was a key precursor to today’s uncivilized MAGA style, which just about every far-right party in virtually every country now espouses.
Where I’m from—Germany—it’s the AfD that spreads racist nonsense and hatred. They’re neoliberal through and through, but they use their nationalist bullshit to blind their dim-witted followers to this fact. They’re exactly like MAGA: uncivilized and primitive and corrupt.
I think the success of this wretched political style, or rather it’s revival, has poisoned social coexistence worldwide, especially since it’s, of course, relentlessly promoted by the billionaires who profit from it and spread this poison through their enormous media power.
You kind of get the impression that the resurgence of fascism—with its super-rich supporters—is spoiling the mood for decent people worldwide with its dystopian crap, its wars against humanity, and its idiotic megalomania.
In so many words I agree. I find socialization to be difficult when you try to make an offhand comment about, generally, ‘the bad stuff going on’ and there’s a 30% chance the person you’re talking to will suddenly and very loudly start agreeing with and cheering on the ‘bad stuff’.
And then if it’s not that then you have a 30 percent chance that they will shut down and say ‘I don’t have enough information about the blatantly bad and terrible things to have an opinion or want to talk about it’, and then you’re left wondering what kind of conversation you could have with a person like that.
And I fucking hate Magic the Gathering so that’s right out. Admittedly it’s all on me, I get way too table flippy about TCG’s.
Yes, MAGA has absolutely shredded any social contract which used to exist in polite society. Literally any random person you meet now has a chance of being a completely unhinged fascist who will try to ruin your life for being a “radical Antifa terrorist.” Even in a city where statistically 8 in 10 of my neighbors are not trump supporters, the ones which are left are particularly radicalized and enthusiastic about being a MAGA warrior.
People have been assholes to service staff and service workers for decades. I did a lot of restaurant work in the early 90s (in College) and the shit that people did to wait staff back then was unreal. Did they do that before I observed it, I am sure.
With that said, social interactions really started to get beyond stupid since the wide spread adoption of Smart Phones and really ramped up after the pandemic.
I go out to restaurants and bars and everyone has their head buried in their phone. People also can’t stop looking at their fucking phones when driving, walking up stairs and in public are just completely oblivious to those around them.
The result of the obliviousness is, they saunter slowly up stairs, stupidly occupy too much space in aisle ways etc.
Its almost like this is a thing https://apnews.com/article/meta-verdict-appeal-social-media-addiction-f2fc62210b02f1945bfd416f5554dd5c
Yes, but I’d argue the biggest contributing factor was COVID
Isolation just kinda “does that” to people. Yes, the problem predates 2020 but anecdotally I think we’ve all met that abrasive, lonely trucker and statistically mental health hospitalizations sky rocketed in 2020 and still hasn’t returned to the previous baseline, especially for those under 18
https://www.cdc.gov/mental-health/about-data/emergency-department-visits.html
I realize this isn’t a perfect measure but I suspect there’s a correlation
slightly offtopic:
This graph can’t be right… Why does it add up to exactly 100 min? What counts as social vs non-social? What are the other categories?
Not really, but that may be because in the meantime I aged into what is considered the most trustable demographic; the middle aged lady. People talk to me now. Confide in me, even.
God I hate people being rude to service workers, that is to me the sign of a true asshole. Someone who thinks they are worth more than someone else. I don’t see it much though.
Not really but I do feel like a lot of people have given up trying to read the room and do whatever they please without regard for anyone else around them. Like my senile aunt who recently attempted to try on underwear in the middle of a big store but at least she has an excuse!
For me it’s just unprompted random rants at strangers. Especially younger people doing this.
I’ve been on the receiving end of this, but it’s always been older people deciding that I need to hear their opinions.
My experience is the inverse, people my own age or younger ranting at me… and the old folks are the more nice and sociable and chill ones.
Like even walking my dog, older folks are very pleasant, younger ones are very weird and sometimes hostile. Literally last week a younger woman told me my dog was cute, asked if she could pet. I said sure, she asked me her name, I told her, and she scowled and told me it was a stupid name and stormed off. Like, OK angry for no reason person.
My dog’s name is Sally… apparently this was very offensive and upsetting to her. So fucking weird.
That’s so bizarre. Funnily enough my experiences is also always regarding my dog.
Used to go biking with my dog, and old people would always want to give me a piece of their mind for it, because it was so dangerous. I had an tachymeter, I knew how fast he could and should run, we had all the tools, and he is trained to do so. He’s part husky, he is literally bred to run.
Granted, these things have been few and far between. Most people leave you alone, and the few that don’t tend to be nice.
I’d bet $ her name was Sally lmao. Upset she shared a name with a dog.
Online, yes. In the world, no, if you can find anyone without their face glued to a screen.
There always were (and always will be) some shitty people in the world, but mostly people are ok in person. If someone sucks, you can just walk away.
Online is different, especially for people who don’t go outside. Too many people tend to hyperbolize everything and then block everyone they disagree with. It exacerbates the echo chamber and increases the fear/hate/isolation.
I’ve seen mostly OK people change over the past decade and become shitty. But they’d also argue it was me who became shitty, no doubt. In real life. And I know they are social media addicts, because they were always on their phone, or they were always referencing Twitter/Tiktok, etc.
Some became anti-vaxx, others just became entiteld assholes, and many just started blaming other people and past events on their current unhappiness. And if you dare to disagree, well, you are the problem too.
It has been trending that way for a while, but COVID really did a number on people randomly interacting with others and creating small talk.
Yes, but only marginally. The recent past is overrated as hell due to the present being so absolutely god awful.
No. I think people are more fearful now thanks to too much news. The world changes very slowly.
We change far faster.
I chat with strangers all the time. Airport, work, grocery store, wherever. I have never had anyone do anything more than have a very short conversation signaling that they weren’t interested. Polite but clear, so I don’t persist.
Nobody has ever said anything rude to me or been shitty.
Humans are social animals, even those self-proclaimed introverts. Everyone need social time, even if it is only with a small group for a short duration. Most people enjoy it, don’t believe the bs that society at large is crumbling and people are mean.
Fwiw, am a guy, short, not horrible looking but not special. I am good at making stupid jokes for most any situation. That seems to put people at ease.
You’ve got it backwards. The world changes very quickly. People don’t.
